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Brian Ambrose
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| Wile E. Coyote wrote: | | My challenge to other AEists is exactly this : if you believed in the Chinese Lab-leak theory, and they locked down harder and more times than than anyone else, just tell me why you think they did this.....? |
Did the Chinese lockdown ‘harder’? Or much at all? It was odd (at least to me) that while ‘millions’ were dying everywhere else there was no mention of the Chinese dying - the place you would expect more deaths. The media said the Chinese authorities must have covered it all but if so, why? Maybe they were more transparent.
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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I kept getting the same impression. It's difficult to recall all these years later but I do remember thinking quite often that the MSM were giving the Chinese totally irrelevant stick for doing things which seemed quite sensible given the nature of their society.
At worst they were going wrong marginally less than we were.
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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It was the Chinese who came up with a Zero Covid/lockdown strategy, which WHO then advocated, and other nations copied.
In December 2022 China lifted the lockdowns, but with subsequent Covid waves and a rising number of excess deaths China reverted to the Zero Covid/lockdown strategy, with even more stringent lockdowns.
| The result was that COVID ran rampant through the population. According to modeling by Zhanwei Du of the University of Hong Kong and Lauren Ancel Meyers of the University of Texas at Austin, COVID killed potentially more than 1.4 million people in China from December 16, 2022, to January 19, 2023. That estimate was backed up by leaked cremation data from Zhejiang Province, where excess deaths jumped 72 percent in the first quarter of 2023 relative to the same period two years earlier. That would extrapolate to 1.5 million deaths nationally. |
China did not deploy mRNA vaccines (so that is a key difference).
Ortho postion is informed by this, ie they say we should have lockdowned earlier, like the Chinese, saving the excess deaths in February-April 2020 (which do need an explanation as these were exceptional levels of excess deaths). But then we correctly deployed vaccines, unlike the Chinese.
Don't get me wrong. Wiley was against Lockdowns. It's just you surely have to understand the better levels of ortho thinking.
It's not just a case of, say, mass hysteria (millenium bug), bed wetting without statistical evidence.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1131428/excess-deaths-in-england-and-wales/
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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| Wiley wrote: | | It's not just a case of, say, mass hysteria (millenium bug), bed wetting without statistical evidence. |
The one thing we did have in spades was statistical evidence. It didn't seem to help though. You seem to know your onions, Wiley, maybe you could guide us through this maze.
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Brian Ambrose
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Hi Wiley, thank you for the correction and interesting ‘harder’ Chinese information. So the lockdown was effective (and was very quiet) as long as they kept it up but as soon they tried to lift it they got their epidemic anyway. Without more official statistics it’s hard to know whether the ‘potentially 1.4 million dead’ is accurate. I wonder why the authorities are so coy about any figures?
I looked at the graph and at least I got it right about the UK deaths - by Autumn 2020 the epidemic was over (peak deaths April). It kicked off again immediately after the jabbing started.
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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| It kicked off again immediately after the jabbing started. |
I don't want to get involved in this--it crosses too many of my boxes--but it's worth pointing out a vaccination programme has an unintended consequence. It gets us out of the house and off with the masks. "It's okay everybody, we've got a vaccine, it's life as before." That is worth a modicum of excess deaths.
And no amount of government/media exhortation would have achieved that. After a few hundred years the jab is something we all believe in. Nearly all.
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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Brian: We need another
<
img src
="" [putting the URL in between the speech marks]
width= [I think there is a space before width, but experiment]
"600" /> [Or whatever number works best]
If you wish, I'll just do it myself to save both our times.
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Brian Ambrose
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Please, and can you give me the magic numbers (width/height) that work for you 🙂
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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Not sure what we are showing here. Is it that vaccines are not good and we would need to battle another COVID outbreak as they would do a scarlet fever outbreak in the early twentieth century, ie before the development of post-infection antibiotics to treat it (as no vaccine existed then or now for scarlet fever, you can't get to herd immunity to defeat scarlet fever and it's also highly contagious before treatment).
So, what you are saying is that we will need public information, quarantines, OAP care homes totally isolated and, worst case scenario, more lockdowns if we ever get another severe COVID outbreak, as the current vaccines simply won't help protect us.
Very bleak.
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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If you edit your post with the graph, you'll see what I've done and can copy it for future use. (I hope). (And change the number if you wish.)
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Brian Ambrose
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| Wile E. Coyote wrote: | Not sure what we are showing here. Is it that vaccines are not good and we would need to battle another COVID outbreak as they would do a scarlet fever outbreak in the early twentieth century, ie before the development of post-infection antibiotics to treat it (as no vaccine existed then or now for scarlet fever, you can't get to herd immunity to defeat scarlet fever and it's also highly contagious before treatment).
So, what you are saying is that we will need public information, quarantines, OAP care homes totally isolated and, worst case scenario, more lockdowns if we ever get another severe COVID outbreak, as the current vaccines simply won't help protect us.
Very bleak. |
The graph is part of the article about vaccines in general. It shows that the diseases were under control (eg clean water) before the vaccines were invented. The claim that vaccines ‘saved’ millions of kids is not true, and the same story for the mRNA ‘vaccine’ (gene therapy).
I’m not sure if bleak is quite the right word - most healthy people, thanks to a good immune system, get cured by themselves and stay cured. Hopefully JFK Jr will to get to the bottom of all this and find out what vaccines are effective and which is marketing.
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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Scarlet fever was actually a big killer of children before antibiotics.
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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Don't queer the pitch, Wiley.
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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| Wile E. Coyote wrote: | One question that nobody seems to be asking is:
If the Wuhan Lab-leak was the source of COVID, does that explain the draconian lockdowns that President Xi then put in place, ie were the Wuhan scientists who had engineered the virus, advising these lockdowns were essential and why? |
Question 2
Why did WHO take over a year to admit that transmition of COVID could be aerosal/airborne?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airborne_transmission
Question 3
Why did WHO take over 2 years to admit that the transmition was predominantly aeorosal/airborne why?
https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/71/9/2311/5867798
WHO had all of us thinking that we needed to do regular cleaning, deep cleaning of areas, doorknobs, taps etc which was unforunately not the major threat.
Why?
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