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Tatjana
In: exiled in Germany
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If you don't know where to go with friends and family for a day out during week-ends or vacation, I have a great tip for you Gadje:
http://www.boswell-romany-museum.com/index.htm
You can even experience how it is : Travelling the traditional way!
And no: I do not get a percentage of entrance fees...
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-Gory at thasp, keener fortha karabd-
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Ishmael
In: Toronto
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Nouns: Roma, Travellers.
Verb: Roam?
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Tatjana
In: exiled in Germany
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| Ishmael wrote: | Nouns: Roma, Travellers.
Verb: Roam? |
Hmmmmm... not bad... gotta get me thinking hat.
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-Gory at thasp, keener fortha karabd-
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Tatjana
In: exiled in Germany
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This is what etymoline says:
roam
c.1300, romen, possibly from O.E. *ramian "act of wandering about," related to ar�man "arise, lift up." There are no cognate forms in other Gmc. languages. "Except in late puns, there is no evidence of connexion with the Romance words denoting pilgrims or pilgrimages to Rome ...." [OED].
What makes me suspicious is that there are "no cognate forms in other Germanic langs".
So I checked Romani:
to travel = misli; walk = ga. Nothing for "to roam" or "wander about" or similar.
Shelta: nothing either...
Hmmm....very strange word, that.... needs to be investigated...
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-Gory at thasp, keener fortha karabd-
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Tatjana
In: exiled in Germany
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Hey Ish,
looky-looky:
After Oxford Con.Dict. also tells me,: "to roam =... of unknown origin", (and no cognate words in Germanic !), I went ahead and checked all Gaelic dicts.
Lo and behold:
rouailtagh: rover, nomad, ranger, roving, stroller, wandering, itinerant, roaming, roamer, wanderer
I'd say we have the culprit.
This is MANX Gaelic (once spoken on the Isle of Man)!
(source: Kelly's Dict. Fockleyr Gaelg - Baarle (Manx Gaelic)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manx_language
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-Gory at thasp, keener fortha karabd-
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Hatty
Site Admin
In: Berkshire
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Romani:
to travel = misli; walk = ga. Nothing for "to roam" or "wander about" or similar. |
If a lifestyle consists of 'roaming' the word itself probably wouldn't appear in the language; it could be too broad a concept needing to be broken down into finer shades of meaning, the equivalent of 'snow' in Inuit.
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Tatjana
In: exiled in Germany
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My thoughts exactly, Hatty.
Travelleling/roaming about is life. So it's probably connected with aspects of daily life rather than with motion (as it is with sedentary folki).
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-Gory at thasp, keener fortha karabd-
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Ishmael
In: Toronto
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| Tatjana wrote: | rouailtagh: rover, nomad, ranger, roving, stroller, wandering, itinerant, roaming, roamer, wanderer
I'd say we have the culprit. |
Look at nomad.
Looks like we have another instance of the r = n cognate.
nomad =roma-d
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DPCrisp
In: Bedfordshire
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| c.1300, romen, possibly from O.E. *ramian "act of wandering about," related to ar�man "arise, lift up." There are no cognate forms in other Gmc. languages. |
Huh? If it's not a natural Germanic word, it was borrowed or made up. Why shouldn't it have been borrowed or made up close to 1300? Why reconstruct an unknown Old English word for it? Bloody linguists.
to travel = misli; walk = ga. Nothing for "to roam" or "wander about" or similar.
Shelta: nothing either...
Hmmm....very strange word, that.... needs to be investigated... |
I think you've already done it. It's not a Romani word for Romani travels, but an English word for roamin' Romani.
It even looks like "to roam" was back-formed from the adjective, i.e. the earliest form quoted, romen, is even closer to "Romani".
Is it true to say Travellers' travels have no itinerary or regular seasonality? Going south for the winter doesn't count if there is not usually any particular place in the south each group/family goes. (As a sedentary observer, I'm not aware of them turning up round our way with any regularity.)
| rouailtagh: rover, nomad... I'd say we have the culprit. This is MANX Gaelic |
Not especially convincing, Tani! Rouailtagh is just as isolated in Manx as 'roam' is in English.
| If a lifestyle consists of 'roaming' the word itself probably wouldn't appear in the language; |
I agree. Everyone calls themselves "the people" ("the men", in the case of Roma), but their names come to mean something else to their neighbours.
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Hatty
Site Admin
In: Berkshire
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| c.1300, romen, possibly from O.E. *ramian "act of wandering about," related to ar�man "arise, lift up." There are no cognate forms in other Gmc. languages. |
Huh? If it's not a natural Germanic word, it was borrowed or made up. Why shouldn't it have been borrowed or made up close to 1300? Why reconstruct an unknown Old English word for it? Bloody linguists. |
Going out on a limb, this ramian meaning 'wandering about' could have a link with ramo (branch, cf. ramus). Ramon and Ramos are common Spanish surnames but probably for different reasons, ostensibly 'someone who lives in a thickly wooded area' (isn't there a nursery rhyme about "don't go playing in the woods or a gypsy will steal you away"? but that's probably due to a general sense of danger in and around forests...).
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Ishmael
In: Toronto
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| EndlesslyRocking wrote: | | Roum is also the German or Dutch (I think) word for Rome: http://lb.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roum |
Well the word Roma is the word Rome.
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DPCrisp
In: Bedfordshire
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| There's an obsolete Scottish spelling of the word roam spelt as roum. |
Furthermore, Rouman, Roumanian = Romanian
and
Roumelia = an area in the south of the Balkan peninsula, now divided between Greece and Bulgaria; of or pertaining to the form of Greek spoken there.
By the way, previous to these in the dictionary are
roulette: Fr., dim. of rouelle wheel, f. late L rotella dim. of rota wheel.
roulement: Fr., lit. 'roll, roster'.
In the first, a T has to disappear without explanation, "because it has to come from Latin"; while the second is simply cognate with English 'roll'. Bloody linguists.
We could argue Roma = roll via the L = R, R = N and N = M rules, but it seems unlikely when roam has no cognates.
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Ishmael
In: Toronto
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| DPCrisp wrote: | | Furthermore, Rouman, Roumanian = Romanian |
And, as I have pointed out elsewhere, Turkey divides the Romanians from the A-R(o)menians.
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DPCrisp
In: Bedfordshire
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In the same way that academe won't look at Megalithic and Celtic maps side by side, they won't say anything about the Roma in the same breath as Rome and Romania because they "know" they didn't leave India until 1000-ish AD... even though they share the name, the colouring, Romans and travellers are both "road pirates", Romania has the most Roma, and Romanian is said to be closest to Latin of the modern Romance languages... Then there's antipathy with the Germans, Irish travellers, horses, Roman affection for Greece...
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