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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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I have much more modest ambitions.
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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And you are have a method that works for you, so going for a fake would be logical.
As for Esunos/Esus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esus
His image appears here on a Roman pillar as a wood chopper.
| The two sculptures where Esus appears are the Pillar of the Boatmen from among the Parisii, on which Esus is identified by name,[1] and a pillar from Trier among the Treveri with similar iconography.[14][15] In both of these, Esus is portrayed cutting branches from trees with his axe.[15] Esus is accompanied, on different panels of the Pillar of the Boatmen, alongside Tarvos Trigaranus (the ‘bull with three cranes’), Jupiter, Vulcan, and other gods |
| wiley wrote: |
During the Republic, Rome used to entrust the founding of their conolies to Three Commisioners. These were known as Triumviri...... |
These are commisioners for colonists, who need to clear trees. Think of them as wise men.
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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The references to Mercury connect to Hermes, and Hermes Trismegistus.
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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Esunertos, or Iisuniirtos (fl. 50-30 BC), was a male ruler in Britain in the western Thames basin in the second half of the 1st century BC. He is known only from a few rare gold and silver coins, which provide an alternate spelling of his name – IISVNIIRTOS.
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Looks like senator or elder........
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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This is not native coinage, it is traded within a colony. A "little Rome" is being set up.
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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I have been asked for my verdict, fake or find, about this Wiki entry
Esunertos, or Iisuniirtos (fl. 50-30 BC), was a male ruler in Britain in the western Thames basin in the second half of the 1st century BC. He is known only from a few rare gold and silver coins, which provide an alternate spelling of his name – IISVNIIRTOS.
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I haven't given a correct answer, I have given a Wiley answer.
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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Footnotes
The theophoric name is also attested in Continental Europe, interpreted to mean 'having the power of Esus'. |
| Mick wrote: | | Theophonically, Jesus. |
Quite. Founding a new kingdom, visited by three wise men.
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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| The English silver penny first appeared in the 8th century CE in adoption of Western Europe's Carolingian monetary system wherein 12 pence made a shilling and 20 shillings made a pound. The weight of the English penny was fixed at 22+1⁄2 troy grains (about 1.46 grams) by Offa of Mercia, an 8th-century contemporary of Charlemagne; 240 pennies weighed 5,400 grains or a tower pound (different from the troy pound of 5,760 grains). The silver penny was the only coin minted for 500 years, from c. 780 to 1280 |
"I want to buy a cow and 3 of your finest sheep"
"Thank you, that will be £1 for the cow, and 1 shilling and threepence for each sheep"
"So that will be £1, 3 shillings and nine pence then"
"It will"
"Great, here we go then.... 1,2, 3, 4, 5, 6, "
"I am sorry but haven't you got anthing larger"
"Sorry, mate, we only have pennies round here" "It's the only thing I have to Offa"
"OK, I guess we will have to weigh it then".........
"Good thinking, it's going to take another 500 years before we will come up with the pound coin."
"Still, it seems strange that you don't need larger currency."
"Not at all the pound will serve as a mental unit of account until Henry VII"
"Briiliant! Genius!" "You you will have created a real coin 500 years in the future, by that time folks will be used to the idea"
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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Recognisable trees can often be seen on ancient coins, these include the olive, the laurel, the fir, the plane tree, the fig, the oak, and especially the date palm.
The date palm is well known in numismastic circles as being the emblem of Carthage. Emblems are considered important as these are considered well-known symbols to the people viewing the coins in ancient times. The thinking is that the minter copies an already known image onto their coins, without any innovation, knowing that the meaning of the emblem will be understood. It's semiotics at its most simple and obvious.
| In the Middle Ages, a palmer (Latin: palmarius or palmerius) was a Christian pilgrim, normally from Western Europe, who had visited the holy places in Palestine and who, as a token of his visits to the Holy Land, brought back a palm leaf or a palm leaf folded into a cross. Palmers were often highly regarded as well-natured holy men because of their devotion to Christ along the pilgrimage. The word is frequently used as synonymous with "pilgrim".[1] |
This I did not know. I was at first sceptical but when I checked, it's confirmed by the heraldic charges, ie the emblems added to the shield, in the form of a pilgrim or palmer staff. It also serves as a canting (ie a pun....maybe punic/phonecian ) for the surname Palmer.
https://www.theheraldrysociety.com/articles/pilgrims-and-heraldry/
It seemed to Wiley all very Megalithic Empire ......
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Hatty
Site Admin
In: Berkshire
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| It seemed to Wiley all very Megalithic Empire ...... |
Agreed.
The description of a 'palmer's wallet' is reminiscent of the caduceus, Hermes' staff.
What is a palmer's wallet?
In heraldry the palmer's staff is a tapering stick, terminating in a ball at the top. Often it is accompanied by a palmer's scrip or wallet. This is a kind of satchel, with tassels at each bottom corner, and a strap or sling attached to the top. |
A wallet, or purse or pouch, are also associated with Hermes, him being the patron saint of travel and trade and, er, thieves.
It's a bit frustrating there are no images of the palm emblem. Wiki says the palm tree is one of Hermes' symbols which sounds like a later addition, due to palmers being conflated with pilgrims, i.e. long distance travellers?
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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The way I took it, was that the wallet was the date (the sweet valuable bit) on the staff/palm?
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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Not a lot is known about the ancient "celtic" tribe the dobunni.
Wiki page.
The Dobunni were one of the Iron Age tribes living in the British Isles prior to the Roman conquest of Britain. There are seven known references to the tribe in Roman histories and inscriptions.[1][2]
Various historians and archaeologists have examined the Dobunni, including Stephen J. Yeates in his book The Tribe of Witches (2008), where he suggests that the latter part of the name possibly derives from *bune, a cup or vessel, with a similar meaning to the later tribal name Hwicce; both being related to the recognisable cult of a Romano-British goddess.[3] This view has been sharply criticised by several archaeologists.[4][5][6] Archaeologist Miles Russell suggests that their original name may have been "Bodunni", connecting this with the Celtic word *bouda meaning "Victorious", in the sense of "The Victorious Ones".[7] |
We are struggling.........a few references......where did they hang out?
| The tribe lived in central Britain in an area that today broadly coincides with the English counties of Bristol, Gloucestershire and the north of Somerset, although at times their territory may have extended into parts of what are now Herefordshire, Oxfordshire, Wiltshire, Worcestershire, and Warwickshire.[8][9] Their capital acquired the Roman name of Corinium Dobunnorum, which is today known as Cirencester. |
Ortho considers Cirencester to be most the important Roman town, outside London. Given that Wiley considers Londonium not at all important that might be interesting, there are remains of a largish amphitheatre. https://www.english-heritage.org.uk/visit/places/cirencester-amphitheatre/
The Dobunni are mainly known to us because of their hill forts and their coinage. They are thought to have been one of the tribes that issued coinage before the Romans came. Numanists refer to their emblem as the "dubonni" or "eisu" "tree".
| A repeated theme of coins ascribed to the Dobunni is a branched emblem appearing on the obverse.[20] The symbol's significance and origins are unclear although corn, ferns and a derivative of the wreath on the British Q stater have all been suggested.[2 |
https://www.baldwin.co.uk/product/dobunni-eisu-gold-stater/
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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| There are seven known references to the tribe in Roman histories and inscriptions.[1][2] |
| The Dobunni are mainly known to us because of their hill forts and their coinage. |
As you know, we take a dim view of 'Roman histories', we take 'inscriptions' seriously only if they are from bona fide archeological digs, we do not take hillforts as evidence of the name of their owner/operators because there is never a name over the porch, which leaves us with this 'coinage' of yours. The one you URLed does not appear to have a name on it and, at £4750, would definitely seem worth making in the garden shed.
So is it 'Dubunni: anywhere, anytime, any place' or is it just that part of 'central Britain' we call north Somerset?
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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Roman histories had a dim view of Carthage.
My instinct is the Dobunni emblem is also the date palm.
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