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Ishmael
In: Toronto
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| Mick Harper wrote: | | If we apply my own working hypothesis that Christianity is a Norman-era invention for the purpose of confronting Islam, what does that produce? |
I've been guessing that Mohammed is based on Martin Luther.
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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Surely you mean Martin Luther King.
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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Constantine and Helens's megalithic, or not, origins are dicussed on 78ff of Megalithic Empire.
I could speculate a bit further than Harper & Hats
Con is suppossed to be "together". Compass is therefore "together" "pace"
So Constantine is "together" "stone" "pertaining to". His giant statue/obelisk at Constantinople might be worth a megalithic thought.
Helen is "Moon"
The footnotes to ME say Constantine was baptised by Pope Sylvester I and talks about silva = wood. Syl looks like Sol to me. So Constantine (the sun god) was vested. ie clothed, in sun by Sylvester to me, but heyho could be a few inferences too far. I agree they, mother and son, "are on the cusp" as ME says. That is why it's a critical moment.
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Hatty
Site Admin
In: Berkshire
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| Wile E. Coyote wrote: | | His giant statue/obelisk at Constantinople might be worth a megalithic thought. |
Constant(ine) is supposed to mean steadfast, standing resolute or faithful [con-stand], so a standing stone seems to fit the bill.
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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As long as this is understood as being homonymically coincident and no more than that, I'll offer the following speculations
Constantine has very strong British connections ie his father, the emperor Constantius, died in York, and he himself was proclaimed emperor there. On the other hand Britain seems not to figure in his CV much thereafter so what the 'mythic' connection is will be down to his mother. You might consult the Evelyn Waugh novel Helena for ideas since though a dutiful Catholic panegyric (Waugh was trying to get an annulment at the time) he would have done his research. I have read it but only in my pre-Megalithic days so nothing stuck.
The reputedly base-born Helen is claimed by the British to be royal-born, the daughter of Old King Cole. But only by the British and presumably opportunely -- she must have lived here for a good while. The name itself is quite big in British Megalithia eg the north-south Via Elen in Wales and other bits and bobs. Sil on the other hand is east-west because of Sul (Bath) and Sil (Silchester).
I didn't realise that Sylvester the First could be considered the first real Pope, if he baptised the first Christian emperor. Our attention has always been on Sylvester the Second who now (I realise) could be the first real Pope! But that's as far down the rabbit hole I'm prepared to go. Unlike Sylvester II, the world's first archaeologist.
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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Helena (Moon) Augusta is the mother of Constantine (The Sun God)
Just as the lunar calendar gives birth to the solar aspects of the calendar. The 10 months(moonths) needed to get an additional 2 summer months. These months came to be known as July and August. Of course named after the famous emperors.
Both these emperors were the results of special births. Julius was by Caesarian section (modern history finds the need to debunk this), Augustus's mother was Atia. Here is the Wiki account of Augustus' conception
| When Atia had come in the middle of the night to the solemn service of Apollo, she had her litter set down in the temple and fell asleep, while the rest of the matrons also slept. On a sudden a serpent glided up to her and shortly went away. When she awoke, she purified herself, as if after the embraces of her husband, and at once there appeared on her body a mark in colours like a serpent, and she could never get rid of it; so that presently she ceased ever to go to the public baths. In the tenth month after that Augustus was born and was therefore regarded as the son of Apollo. Atia too, before she gave him birth, dreamed that her vitals were borne up to the stars and spread over the whole extent of land and sea, while Octavius dreamed that the sun rose from Atia's womb. (Suetonius:94:4)[5] |
The summer months have special historical births (as does that of Jesus).
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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More speculation.
Constantine= Birth of Constant Time
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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There are no Christian temples within Rome for the 300 years after the death of Jesus. Helena Augusta when she undertook her Christian building programme (some credit this to the sun worshipping Constantine) built basilicas in the style of the first century.
Up to Helena's programme basilicas were civic assembly buildings, not religious buildings. The question is why build Christian buidings in the style of civic buildings some 200 years older? The ortho explanation of why they didn’t choose the classical temple form is something like "pagan" temples are designed to contain a large cult statue of a deitiy whilst worship and sacrifice would took place outside, whereas the basilica, designed specifically for large numbers of people to gather indoors was more appropriate for Chritianity.
As far as the Christian church, the logic goes, it is a case of meeting in small private homes, then come Basilicas, in the style of Roman civic buildings, then smaller churches modeled on Basilicas.
It is an architectural case of cities first
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Hatty
Site Admin
In: Berkshire
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A few years ago we ruminated about whether a 'Viking' hoard found in a field in Galloway, Scotland in 2014 was fake or find. No conclusion was reached either way but more details have since been published
| Hatty wrote: | In 2014 a detectorist uncovered the Galloway Hoard hailed by the National Museum of Scotland as
| the richest collection of rare and unique Viking-age objects ever found in Britain or Ireland. |
Judging by Museum of Scotland's appraisal, it's far broader in scope than simply 'Viking Age'
| Other finds from around Britain or Ireland have been exceptional for a single class of object—for example, silver brooches or armlets. But the Galloway Hoard brings together a stunning variety of objects in one discovery, hinting at hitherto unknown connections between people across Europe and beyond. It also contains objects which have never before been discovered in a hoard of this age, some of which are utterly unique. | |
National Museums Scotland have now retracted the Viking claim but remain convinced the hoard dates to the Anglo-Saxon era
| The bulk of the Galloway Hoard consists of silver objects made to be hacked up as bullion, which could be weighed and used as an early form of currency. The ‘broad-band’ arm-rings and ingots were made from recycled good-quality silver, mainly coins. They were shaped into a distinctive new form of stamped arm-ring. From hoards that can be dated, they appear to have been used c. AD 880 to 930, so we can date the Galloway Hoard to c. 900. But it is still unclear where the silver came from, and where the arm-rings were made. The Pictish and Irish realms were not coin-using at this time, and did not exploit their natural silver ores, so the silver likely came from the Anglo-Saxon kingdoms or even further abroad. |
The main evidence for dating/provenance is an inscription on a rock-crystal jar that says the jar was made for a bishop named Hyguald.
The name of a mystery bishop has been found inscribed on a rare rock crystal jar which was part of the Galloway Viking-age treasure hoard.
Researchers have now found a Latin inscription, in gold, on its base which says: "Bishop Hyguald had me made".
Experts said it was "frustratingly difficult" to identify him but he may have been a mid-9th Century bishop. |
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-south-scotland-59702916
By now we are familiar with the school of 'Alfred had me made' inscriptions that purportedly authenticate an object from an unspecified findspot.
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Hatty
Site Admin
In: Berkshire
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The inscription on the jar is not strictly speaking from the 'Alfred had me made' school of inscription because unlike Alfred this bishop is completely unknown
Prof Alex Woolf, senior lecturer at the University of St Andrews, said: "The sources and records of the period are incomplete, but what we do know from them is that there were several ecclesiastics in early medieval Northumbria with the name Hyguald.
"We don't know of a Bishop Hyguald, specifically, but our lists of Northumbrian bishops are incomplete after 810.
"It is accordingly - and frustratingly - difficult to be more precise but it may well be that what we're looking at is an otherwise undocumented mid-9th Century bishop of either Whithorn or Hexham." |
According to the BBC article the jar was wrapped in textile which begs the question why not have the textile carbon dated? If a test had been done, the museum would surely have mentioned it.
Some of the Galloway Hoard's most precious treasures were found packed in a silver-gilt lidded vessel. One of them was a unique object made of rare rock crystal fitted with gold. It has a fascinating history as well as an intriguing name on it.
The rock crystal object is one of several objects wrapped in textile from the lower deposit of the Hoard. These are the subject of a major conservation and research programme. |
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-south-scotland-59702916
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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I get the impression the whole thing has become too big, too political, for sanity to interpose itself at this late stage. But this is interesting in an AE sort of way
| National Museums Scotland have now retracted the Viking claim but remain convinced the hoard dates to the Anglo-Saxon era |
I wonder if there were any headlines "It's not Viking--and that's official!" Though I suppose technically it could have been "Galloway hoard--it's even older than they thought!"
That cloth, by the way, would be a rare (unique?) survival of Anglo-Saxon textile design and, from a technical point of view, more valuable than the hoard itself. So not carbon-dating it is the least of it.
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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The inscription is not on the base, it's on the top. It's the top of a minature mock Corinthian column.
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Hatty
Site Admin
In: Berkshire
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It crossed my mind that the Galloway hoard may have been buried in the sixteenth century during the Scottish Reformation, a period that reportedly encompassed widespread destruction of religious objects and ornaments. Presumably most silver items were melted down but it'd be hardly surprising if some were salvaged and hidden whether for motives of piety or materialism.
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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Stylistically it looks Renaissance, acanthus leaves growing through basket etc. I like the way they have weaved a golden basket. Someone knew his Vitruvius......
In the world's first architecture textbook, "De architectura" (30 B.C.), Vitruvius tells the story of a young girl from the city-state of Corinth. "A free-born maiden of Corinth, just of marriageable age, was attacked by an illness and passed away," writes Vitruvius. She was buried with a basket of her favorite things atop her tomb, near the root of an acanthus tree. That spring, leaves and stalks grew up through the basket, creating a delicate explosion of natural beauty. The effect caught the eye of a passing sculptor named Callimachus, who began to incorporate the intricate design onto column capitals. Because the sculptor found this design in Corinth, the columns that bear it became known as Corinthian columns. | |
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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| "Bishop Hyguald had me made". |
They must have googled this.
Higbald of Lindisfarne (or Hygebald) was Bishop of Lindisfarne from 780 or 781 until his death on 25 May 803.[1] Little is known about his life except that he was a regular communicator with Alcuin of York; it is in his letters to Alcuin that Higbald described in graphic detail the Viking raid on Lindisfarne on 8 June 793 in which many of his monks were killed.
Higbald has long been thought to be identical with the Speratus addressed in a letter by Alcuin of 797, but this is no longer viewed as likely.[2] |
And this.
Saint Hybald (fl. c. 664 – c. 690),[nb 1] also known as Higbald, Hibald or Hygbald, was a 7th-century Anglo-Saxon saint. His feastdays are 18 September and 14 December (Orthodox).
Life and legacy
The Venerable Bede, in his Ecclesiastical History, describes St Hybald as a "most holy and continent man who was an abbot in Lindsey".[5] It is conjectured, in the Dictionary of Christian Biography (1877–87), that this is the Benedictine abbey at Bardney,[6] then in the old Kingdom of Lindsey, now Lincolnshire.
In 679, Osthryth, queen of Mercia, sought to move the remains of her uncle, St Oswald, to Bardney,[7] but the monks refused to accept the body because Oswald, as king of Northumbria, had once conquered Lindsey. The remains were locked outside the abbey but the appearance of a mysterious beam of light, that night, led the monks to reconsider.[8]
Hybald was also a friend of Saint Chad, and, had a prophetic vision of his death.[6] He later, followed Chad's example and became a hermit.
Hybald died around 690,[4] and was buried in the village of Hibaldstow, whose name means place where St Hygbald is buried. Following his canonisation, a shrine was built near his grave to hold his relics, and became a place of pilgrimage. This continued until the English Reformation when the shrine was destroyed. Hybald's body remained undisturbed until it was rediscovered in 1864, when, the, then, dilapidated, church, was, rebuilt.[nb 2]
In addition to Hibaldstow, three Lincolnshire churches are dedicated to Hybald at Ashby de la Launde, Manton and Scawby.[3] |
The problem is then you have Anglo Saxons with a love of Corinthian columns, which feature in post-Conquest cathedrals.
The problem is this is all 13th century fiction which is why, presumably, you find Corinthian capitals within say Durham..... cathedral.
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