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Ishmael
In: Toronto
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If these charts are accurate (view them full screen) the statistics are absolutely damning!
History shows us that vaccines did NOT eradicate the diseases that plagued humanity. That is a common misconception -- in actual fact, it was better sanitation and hygiene in the cities that prevented the spread of diseases. These charts, from official sources, show us that vaccines (1) were not responsible, and are not necessary, for eliminating infectious diseases, (2) are not effective, and (3) are dangerous.
-- Proof That Vaccines Didn't Save Us
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Tilo Rebar
In: Sussex
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Good find, Ishmael. However, there is some benefit with this massive international vaccination programme - Big Pharma and their share holders make $$$billions out of it. Could also be good for Undertakers too.
This graph seems to indicate that health care workers in some European countries could already be aware of the risk/benefit equation and have voted with their feet...
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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So, am I the only fan of Big Pharma left on the 'planet'?
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Tilo Rebar
In: Sussex
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| Mick Harper wrote: | | So, am I the only fan of Big Pharma left on the 'planet'? |
I wonder if you will still be a fan when the realisation dawns on you that it is Big Pharma that 'invent' illnesses to frighten the populace into parting with $$$$$billions.
It gets worse. Big Pharma do this often with the connivance of state controlled scams like the NHS, the Canadian HCA and the 'in process of adoption' O'bummer Care system in another of our mature quasi-autonomous colonies, the US.
The scale of this rip-off is astounding! Healthcare accounts for an amazing 11% of GDP in UK, 11% in Canada, and will cost a whopping 20%(est.) in USA when O'bummer Care is fully on stream.
You couldn't make this up, even if you were on drugs. Millions of medical workers across the world brainwashed by the profiteering Big Pharma companies (and their lackeys) into thinking they are helping people, when in fact in most instances they only make things worse. How despicable is that.
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Ishmael
In: Toronto
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| Tilo Rebar wrote: | | Millions of medical workers across the world brainwashed by the profiteering Big Pharma companies (and their lackeys) into thinking they are helping people, when in fact in most instances they only make things worse. How despicable is that. |
That's not the way it works.
Firstly; a big pharma company is not a person. It can't set out to brainwash anyone. Only the people who collectively own and operate the organization can have any motive or aim.
Secondly; even were all they do is as bad as you claim, even the highest decision-makers would be as "brainwashed" as the lowest lackey, concerning the truth of what they were doing. This is what it is to be confounded by "careful ignoral." If the truth is as obvious as you claim, all the more reason it is sure to be missed by those who cannot afford to see it.
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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If you substituted "Big Grocery" for Big Pharma, Tilo, you could say all the same things. I like to shop at Tesco and I (appear to) need to take various pills from time to time. If there is a New World Order secretly run by Piggly-Wiggly I'll just have to put up with it.
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Ishmael
In: Toronto
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I think it's a little different Mick, as the success of the grocery does not depend upon the veracity of any scientific theory of nutrition.
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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Well, I hate to take your subject (further) off topic but since you raise the point, I'd have to disagree. Big Pharma does not rely on any particular scientific theory -- except perhaps Germ Theory. Vaccination, to take your own example, is very small beer indeed for Big Pharma.
Very few companies even bother with vaccines, and those that do regard them as boring but secure profit centres. This is of course because, unlike most drugs, vaccines are almost entirely mass government purchases and are not, in the ordinary way, consumer products.
By the way, Big Grocery have become greater and greater enthusiasts of the various 'nutrition theories' that have come (and gone) in the recent past. One would have to say that these theories have themselves become consumer demands over and above any actual considerations of cost and taste.
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Ishmael
In: Toronto
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| Mick Harper wrote: | | One would have to say that these theories have themselves become consumer demands over and above any actual considerations of cost and taste. |
Absolutely.
And therein lies much of the difference. Pharmaceutical companies benefit from the deference to authority also afforded academic institutions. Their research creates the demand.
Conversely; There is a separation between dietary authority and the grocery chain. The latter has no academic standing.
Perhaps if there were a similar division in private medicine we would have witnessed as many fads in "germ theory" as we have seen in nutrition -- and might greet each new idea with as much measured skepticism.
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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| Pharmaceutical companies benefit from the deference to authority also afforded academic institutions. Their research creates the demand. |
This is an idiotic way of summarising the position. The demand is created by people with (mainly) genuine illnesses. The authority is created by the (near-) scientific method of intensive drug testing. Anti-Pharma folk (ie the whole world by now) continue to mix up the pharmaceutical companies' actual day-to-day work of curing ills with the accompanying excesses that all capitalistic concerns are apt to get up to from time to time in the maximising of profit.
A good current example is the Chinese government's (entirely justified) persecution of the Big Western Pharma companies for malpractices they have all been getting up to in what is a more than usually wild-west economy. Let us see what happens if the Chinese decide to go back to their traditonal forms of pharmacology. And say goodby to the rhino.
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Tilo Rebar
In: Sussex
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I prefer a simpler explanation to the reality of Big Pharma. as per Occam...
What was is what is...
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Ishmael
In: Toronto
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| Mick Harper wrote: | | The authority is created by the (near-) scientific method of intensive drug testing. |
The question before us concerns whether the drug testing methodology of pharmaceutical companies conforms to the scientific method with any greater degree of fidelity than what we have observed in every other field of human inquiry. The charts that I posted suggest that these methods are no better than those at work everywhere else.
Is the data in the charts I posted accurate? If so, is it damning?
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Ishmael
In: Toronto
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Also, let us not forget the primary question: Do vaccines actually work?
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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I have belatedly looked at your vaccination tables -- most impressive. Very persuasive. But I say again, Big Pharma and vaccination are simply not natural bedfellows. I doubt if any of the major vaccinations were the result of commercial initiatives. The same by the way is true for the antibiotics. The 'other' major modern life-saver.
It seems there is no money in really big pharma.
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Ishmael
In: Toronto
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| Mick Harper wrote: | | But I say again, Big Pharma and vaccination are simply not natural bedfellows. |
Did I even bring up so-called "Big Pharma?"
I am just interested in this question of whether vaccines work and, if they don't, I find it a curious thing that the obvious has proved so elusive. Why it has would be a matter worth pondering.
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