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Wireloop
In: Detroit
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| But before Wireloop hares in, Chad, tell us what practical use could be made of this 'effect'. |
Too late Mick.
| Chad wrote: | | The size of the lobes and the inclination of the figure would, I expect, depend upon the location on Earth from which the observations where made. |
That is what I expected at first Chad, and we were half correct. The inclination does depend upon the location of the Earth, but the size of the lobes do not. In fact the size of the lobes do not change no matter where viewing from, it is an analemma. I made this discovery independently some time ago, but now it seems to be common knowledge on Wiki. There is still a very important feature of this analemma that wiki is not commenting on, which I suspect (hope) is unique to this group.
Anyway, anybody know where the topic that I started 8 years ago called 'The Logos' has gone? I can't find it ; )
Check this!
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6d/Globenmuseum_Vienna_20091010_479.JPG
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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Ishmael
In: Toronto
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| Wireloop wrote: | Check this!
[url]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6d/
Globenmuseum_Vienna_20091010_479.JPG[/url] |
Oh my!
Is that Christ crucified???
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Hatty
Site Admin
In: Berkshire
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It's an ankh. Same thing.
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Wireloop
In: Detroit
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| Ishmael wrote: | | Wireloop wrote: | Check this!
[url]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6d/
Globenmuseum_Vienna_20091010_479.JPG[/url] |
Oh my!
Is that Christ crucified??? |
Now you got it! Or is it Plato's 'divided line', Euclid's extreme and mean ratio, The Ark of the Covenant, etc...
I thought you had this 8 years ago ; )
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Wireloop
In: Detroit
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| Hatty wrote: | | It's an ankh. Same thing. |
Nice one Hatty.
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Wireloop
In: Detroit
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Sorry, my mistake.
I've got too much going on ........
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Chad
In: Ramsbottom
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| Wireloop wrote: | | Chad wrote: | | The size of the lobes and the inclination of the figure would, I expect, depend upon the location on Earth from which the observations where made. |
That is what I expected at first Chad, and we were half correct. The inclination does depend upon the location of the Earth, but the size of the lobes do not. In fact the size of the lobes do not change no matter where viewing from, it is an analemma. |
Must say... I expected (when viewed from the Equator) that the lobes would be symmetrical with the crossover point (from wherever viewed) coinciding with the equinoxes.
But thinking about it, that would only have been the case had the Earth�s orbit been perfectly circular... The asymmetry of the lobes (and the temporal shift of the crossover) are, I assume, the result of Earth�s eccentric orbit.
So, given that the earth's orbit wasn�t designed especially to produce this effect, the Ancients must have become aware of it and built it into their religious symbology.
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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Do you mean that the Ancients were using this to measure the eccenticity of the earth's orbit? If so, why?
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Chad
In: Ramsbottom
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| I wrote: | Must say... I expected (when viewed from the Equator) that the lobes would be symmetrical with the crossover point (from wherever viewed) coinciding with the equinoxes.�
But thinking about it, that would only have been the case had the Earth�s orbit been perfectly circular. |
Been giving this a little more thought...
A perfectly circular orbit would give a straight line analemma... a regular elliptical orbit (with Sol at the precise centre) would give a regular figure 8 with the crossover at the equinoxes... and an elliptical orbit with an offset centre would give the asymmetrical analemma we see.
What use is this?
Well if you are measuring and mapping the Earth (using the position of the sun as your primary datum) knowledge of the analemma would allow you to make very, very, precise corrections.
(I'm sure it would also have many other practical uses...)
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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Sorry to be nuisance, Chad, (I thought an analemma was that trilling sound Muslim women make when they're agitated) but "would allow you to make very, very, precise corrections" to what exactly?.
| (I'm sure it would also have many other practical uses...) |
Do go on. If I didn't know it was actually because of your preoccupation with Mancunian match-making this weekend, I might think you were indulging in 'careful ignoral'.
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Chad
In: Ramsbottom
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| "would allow you to make very, very, precise corrections" to what exactly?. |
Given that you can use the position of the sun (and temporal knowledge) to pinpoint your latitude and longitude (as discussed previously) there would be inherent errors due to the fact that our solar orbit is somewhat eccentric... the analemma would allow you to make precise corrections to your global position.
| I might think you were indulging in 'careful ignoral' |
Not 'careful ignoral' just buying time while I come up with other uses (and a plea for help).
| ...your preoccupation with Mancunian match-making this weekend... |
The AEist in me keeps trying to tell me it will be good for Manchester, if City win... but I keep telling him not to be such a stupid twat!
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Chad
In: Ramsbottom
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| Hatty wrote: | | It's an ankh. Same thing. |
Not to mention this...
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Chad
In: Ramsbottom
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You can use the analemma to produce very accurate sundials (and there are references to the ancients producing analemmic sundials)� but (I believe) it interested the ancients more because it allowed them to keep a very accurate track on the movement of their primary deity (God moves in mysterious ways).
Not only does the analemma bring to mind the ankh, caduceus and crucified Christ� but more than anything, it reminds me of a fish. (Remember all those priests with fishy head gear.)
The Christians were following a long tradition by adopting the fish symbol� This could be where it originated.
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Wireloop
In: Detroit
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| Chad wrote: |
You can use the analemma to produce very accurate sundials (and there are references to the ancients producing analemmic sundials)� |
Could you elaborate a bit Chad?
And since we've taken this path into the jungle of symbology, what do you think of the opening line from John?
| In the beginning was the Logos, and the Logos was with God, and the Logos was God. He (it) was with God in the beginning. Through him (it) all things were made; without him (it) nothing was made that has been made. In him (it) was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. | |
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