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Hatty
Site Admin
In: Berkshire
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| Dan wrote: | | Because guard = ward, that's why. G = U, so GU = UU = W. |
Sorry to keep banging on about 'g' - this combination of GU made me wonder if 'g' didn't get mixed up with 'q' at times, they do look similar.
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DPCrisp
In: Bedfordshire
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| this combination of GU made me wonder if 'g' didn't get mixed up with 'q' at times, they do look similar. |
Per Flying Chaucers, I can see that Q and G might overlap, but the only example I can think of right now is qual = whale, which I'm not convinced is a general equation. (Qual might be a species of whale or fish.)
Can you find any examples to test "Q = G" as a rule, Hatty? NSOED has 877 QU- words, so I'm won't be diving in right away!
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Hatty
Site Admin
In: Berkshire
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Haven't had time to look anything up yet, off the top of my head there's queen and Gwen, but most examples are in Spanish (aqua/agua, equal/igual), which doesn't help much. Will probably find there's no connection between the two languages.
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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So Guinevere just means queen. I did not know that. Which prompts the question: what is the meaning of Arthur? This is always vaguely (but confidently) said to be a Roman name, but I think we need to kick that assumption around fairly robustly.
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DPCrisp
In: Bedfordshire
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| So Guinevere just means queen. I did not know that. |
Not according to BehindTheName.com: Old French form of the Welsh name Gwenhwyfar, which is composed of the elements gwen meaning "fair, white" and hwyfar meaning "smooth".
| Which prompts the question: what is the meaning of Arthur? |
The meaning of this name is unknown. It could be derived from British art "bear"combined with viros "man"-- Cf. Greek arktos bear -- or it could be related to Irish art "stone"
Ah-hah! Notice that ars/art/arth meaning 'something cleverly contrived' converges with 'something jointed' in the Megalithic: 'something (spec, stones) cleverly put together'.
Alternatively it could be related to an obscure Roman family name Artorius.
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Ishmael
In: Toronto
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| Mick Harper wrote: | | So Guinevere just means queen. |
No, Mick, it doesn't just mean "Queen."
It means Queen Eve.
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Hatty
Site Admin
In: Berkshire
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Eve is a "night" word (erev in Hebrew), just as Lillith, Adam's first wife, is dervied from leila meaning 'night', so Guinevere could be queen of the night.
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Ishmael
In: Toronto
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| Hatty wrote: | | Eve is a "night" word (erev in Hebrew), just as Lillith is dervied from leila meaning 'night'. |
Yes. King Arthur and Queen Eve.
And Arthur = Atur = Aten = Atem = Adam. Adam and Eve.
And finally...
| Chart: | Adam & Eve
Sun & Moon
Arthur & Guinevere |
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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So Mankind first evolved in Britain. Should I write a letter to the Evening Standard?
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Ishmael
In: Toronto
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So here's my next thought. If Guinevere is Queen Eve and King Arthur is King Adam then it is Adam, the first man, who is by association, "The Once and Future King."
Is this just another version then of the "Christian" notion of the first and second Adam?
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Hatty
Site Admin
In: Berkshire
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Wow. Would you adam and eve it. Arthur the messiah.
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Komorikid
In: Gold Coast, Australia
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| Sorry to keep banging on about 'g' - this combination of GU made me wonder if 'g' didn't get mixed up with 'q' at times, they do look similar. |
The q in Hebrew is pronounced as g gh and k in Arabic
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Komorikid
In: Gold Coast, Australia
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gwn hywfr looks very much like Hebrew to me.
In Hebrew kwn is vocalised kuwn and is pronounced -- koown
It means to be established, be fixed
In Hebrew khwr is vocalised khawar and is pronounced hav-vah
It means Eve the first woman
kwn is very close to gwn
g and k are interchangeable in Arabic
khwr again is very close to hywfr
koown hav-vah is very close to Gwenhwyfar which would mean the established (or true)Eve
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Komorikid
In: Gold Coast, Australia
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Arthur could also possibly come from the Hebrew as well
The word ybytr is vocalised Ebyathar and pronounced ebi-yar-thar
It is a compound word consisting of yb and ytr
yb is vocalised ab and pronounced ebi
In Hebrew it means - head or founder of a household, group, family, or clan
ytr is vocalised yathar and is pronounced yar-thar
In Hebrew it means - to excel, show pre-eminence
The Ebyathar is the pre-eminent founder
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Hatty
Site Admin
In: Berkshire
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Guinivere appears to have several, associated meanings, e.g. 'white wave' and 'white ghost'(Celtic/Gaelic), also came across 'tribe woman' (of the race of woman) though not clear how this was derived from Celtic; 'white ghost' reminded me of Elizabeth I's ghastly white make-up. It's interesting that there is a distinct English word for 'queen' rather than a female version of king.
| So Mankind first evolved in Britain. Should I write a letter to the Evening Standard? |
I think others reached the same conclusion a few years earlier than you, Mick:
In 1605 you might have heard this account of British and English origins in Oxford:
Britain was originally called Albion and then Britain when it was conquered by Brutus, who was not a prince of Troy but a Gaul and thus a collateral of Tuisco. The Scots came from Scythia, part of the northern European world, and the Picts from the Baltic. The language of all these peoples was Cimbric, an ancestor of Anglo-Saxon and the tongue spoken by Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden.
This was the thesis of a Student of Christ Church, RichardVerstegan, in his book Restitution of Decayed Intelligence in Antiquities concerning the most Noble and Renowned English Nation. What now appears to be crazed ramblings was actually an attempt to provide a coherent ancestry for all the peoples of Britain at a time when nationhood was an increasingly live issue. Verstegan didn't do it well; the materials simply were not available for any such attempt and he was driven to invent them. |
courtesy of Matthew Todd
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