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Ishmael
In: Toronto
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| Grant wrote: | | No, because reason and logic did not create us. What created us was Chaos. We live in a reasonable and logical world because only in such a world can consciousness exist. |
Foolishness.
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Ishmael
In: Toronto
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| Brian Ambrose wrote: | | As Hatty said, we have no guarantee that reason and logic is the only way to wisdom. How about the demonstrable power of intuition? |
Wisdom shmisdom. We are concerned with knowledge. Reason and logic are the essence of it. The concept is meaningless in their absence.
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Chad
In: Ramsbottom
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| Grant wrote: | | No, because reason and logic did not create us. What created us was Chaos. We live in a reasonable and logical world because only in such a world can consciousness exist. |
But Grant, chaotic systems are perfectly reasonable and logical.... they are simply unpredictable. Their future dynamics are fully determined by their initial conditions, with no random elements involved. What makes them unpredictable is an accumulation of inescapable mathematical rounding errors, creating indeterminable variables.
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Chad
In: Ramsbottom
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| Brian Ambrose wrote: | | There may never be a "When we truly understand". |
I am a very patient man.
Live long and prosper.
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Hatty
Site Admin
In: Berkshire
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| Ishmael wrote: | | Wisdom shmisdom. We are concerned with knowledge. Reason and logic are the essence of it. The concept is meaningless in their absence. |
Reason and logic are tools for evaluating but knowledge is of little use without understanding.
People who make break-through discoveries are often alleged to have made amazing deductions thanks to some kind of mind-altering drug. Is this also a load of bollocks since presumably they'd have got there anyway if they have such remarkable minds? And wouldn't drugs be detrimental to reason/logic? The Dutch should be getting all the Nobel prizes as, apart from Keimpe, they're permanently stoned.
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Ishmael
In: Toronto
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Ideas are not arrived at by reason and logic. But they are evaluated on that basis.
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Chad
In: Ramsbottom
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| Ishmael wrote: | | Ideas are not arrived at by reason and logic. But they are evaluated on that basis. |
My point exactly.
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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The rest of us will recognise the wisdom of the AEL rule against these kinds of 'philosophical' discussions.
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Brian Ambrose
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You started it.
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Grant
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No, just common sense.
How can reason and logic exist as a given? You'd have to explain what created reason and logic or why it must exist.
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