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Mallas
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Hello everyone,
I came across a very interesting find. It is a free book you can download as PDF format from http://electromass.com/
It was a fresh new idea and is an easy read for anyone interested in that sort of stuff.
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Ishmael
In: Toronto
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| Rocky wrote: | | Here's a picture showing rotation of the sun. If you're standing near the equator of the sun, it takes 25 days to go around, and if you're standing near the pole it takes 35 years to go around. |
You mean, of course, 35 days.
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Yes, sorry I meant 35 days.
I wonder if this effect exists on the earth to a very small extent. Maybe it plays a role in earthquakes and volcanoes.
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Brian Ambrose
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| So what is causing the drag as you move closer towards the poles? |
If the sun's rotation is being 'driven' (as in an electric motor) then that's what you'd expect to see.
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DPCrisp
In: Bedfordshire
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How so?
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Ishtar
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Looks as if the center were where the main movement force was and the rest is being dragged by the center. It makes me think of when you stir a pot you only stir one plane but the whole soup is pulled along at a different rate.
That must be related to the planets being on the same solar ecliptic. I'm afraid I'm not overly educated in astronomy, however..
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Brian Ambrose
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Ah, well, I was rather hoping KomoriKid was going to leap in at this point. But if you imagine the sun as an induction motor you can see why it would spin, and more force would presumably be exerted through the largest cross-sectional area, hence the equator would spin more quickly than the poles.
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DPCrisp
In: Bedfordshire
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How are y'all seeing this diagram?
As if the Sun is a series of horizontal discs, each rotating at a different speed?
Taking latitudes from this picture, it looks like the angular velocity goes up pretty well linearly with distance from the axis: from 41 days at the poles to 25 days at the equator.
If that goes for the interior, then that suggests a series of co-axial cylinders, each with its own speed. The lines of latitude in the diagram would be the tops-and-bottoms of vertical cylinders, rather than the edges of horizontal discs.
So, a force that goes up linearly from centre to edge...? I think gravity would do that.
Anything else?
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DPCrisp
In: Bedfordshire
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| It makes me think of when you stir a pot you only stir one plane but the whole soup is pulled along at a different rate. |
The question is whether all the soup ends up (eventually) going at the same rate if the stirring is constant.
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Ishtar
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| DPCrisp wrote: | | The question is whether all the soup ends up (eventually) going at the same rate if the stirring is constant. |
Oh, that's a good point..
So what is suggested is that the sun is a series of cylinders inside one another spinning at different speeds. It makes me think of a Searl Effect Generator, except the cylinders are elongated.
Jupiter also has differential rotation, but the difference is only 5 minutes. The only reason I can find given is that it's because it isn't solid.
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Ishmael
In: Toronto
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What you describe Dan sounds like it fits the facts. Neither the Sun (nor Jupiter -- thank you Ishtar -- though the effect there is less pronounced) turns by force of momentum alone (as much as it might suit my other work were this so). There appears to be an internal power driving the rotation of the gas giants from the inside out.
That said, most of the rotational energy may still be attributable to momentum.
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Brian Ambrose
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| So, a force that goes up linearly from centre to edge...? I think gravity would do that. |
Dan, sorry, but can you elaborate? How does gravity make the outer cylinders rotate at a higher rate? Do you mean the total gravitational effect of the orbiting planets? This would be an alternative external driving force.
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DPCrisp
In: Bedfordshire
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| So what is suggested is that the sun is a series of cylinders inside one another spinning at different speeds. |
It's worth conjuring with the idea, yes. But it might still be discs of different speeds. Or hula-hoops. Or... We don't know what's happening inside. Is the outside/equator being driven fastest? Is the inside/pole being held back? Depends which scenario can actually be explained.
| Jupiter also has differential rotation, but the difference is only 5 minutes. The only reason I can find given is that it's because it isn't solid. |
Well, it can only happen because it isn't solid...
Those bands of turbulence sure are reminiscent of terrestrial weather... but we only have a thin shell of fluid stuff: no room to consider either discs or cylinders. Course, if it were cylinders, the surface ought to have steps, which couldn't happen: things would have to slosh about to make the surface smooth, obscuring the true picture.
A gesture towards the answer might go: I mentioned gravity, but note that the 'clouds' at the surface of the Sun or Jupiter are not in orbit: the surface is actually going considerably slower than something orbiting there would.* Gravity increases as you approach the surface from outside, but if you could go though towards the centre, gravity would decrease because there is less and less of the mass left between you and the centre. At the centre, the force of gravity is zero. Or, going the other way, gravitational force increases linearly from the centre outwards. Which means rotational speeds would get higher and higher.
It's clearly not as simple as that though since a) the speed at the centre looks to be low but not zero {It might be zero, or going backwards even: I don't have that information.} and b) each point goes around latitudinally, not around the centre. But that could all be the effect of clumping stuff together, with friction and drag: everything has to go the same way because there is something in the way as soon as you try to go off course.
* If the Sun itself weren't in the way, something orbiting at its surface would be going 200 times faster than the surface. If I did the sums right. The speed is determined only by the Sun's mass.
Jupiter is only going 3 times slower than its surface would orbit: maybe that has something to do with its much lower differential between pole and equator.
Since gravity alone would be enough to make the surface go faster, it must be strongly counteracted by something else. The difference between Jupiter and the Sun may reflect the difference in temperature... or electric and magnetic fields... or some combination of these and... whatever else.
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