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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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| Online Etymology wrote: |
Legend:
early 14c., "narrative dealing with a happening or an event," from Old French legende (12c., Modern French légende) and directly from Medieval Latin legenda "legend, story," especially lives of saints, which were formerly read at matins and in refectories of religious houses, literally "(things) to be read," on certain days in church, etc., from Latin legendus, neuter plural gerundive of legere "to read; to gather, pluck, select," from PIE root *leg- (1) "to collect, gather," with derivatives meaning "to speak (to 'pick out words')."
Extended sense of "nonhistorical or mythical story," with or without saints, wonders, and miracles is first recorded late 14c. Meaning "writing or inscription" (especially on a coin or medal) is from 1610s; on a map, illustration, etc., from 1903. To be a legend in (one's) own time is from 1958. |
| Online Etymology wrote: |
Legion:
c. 1200, "a Roman legion," from Old French legion "squad, band, company, Roman legion," from Latin legionem (nominative legio) "Roman legion, body of soldiers, a levy of troops," from legere "to gather; to choose, pick out, select," from PIE root *leg- (1) "to collect, gather." Tucker writes that "The common sense is 'pick,'" but it is unclear whether the use here is "picking up or picking out." Roughly 3,000 to 6,000 men, under Marius usually with attached cavalry. "The legions were numbered in the order of their levy, but were often known by particular names" [Lewis].
The great power of the Roman legion was due to its rigid discipline and its tactical formation in battle, which was so open and flexible as to enable it to meet every emergency without surprise or derangement.
Generalized sense of "a large number of persons" (c. 1300) is due to translations of the allusive phrase in Mark v.9. Of modern military bodies from 1590s. American Legion, U.S. association of ex-servicemen, founded in 1919. Legion of Honor is French légion d'honneur, an order of distinction founded by Napoleon in 1802. Foreign Legion is French légion étrangère "body of foreign volunteers in a modern army," originally Polish, Belgian, etc. units in French army; they traditionally served in colonies or distant expeditions. Related: Legionary. |
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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Wiley has recently being doing important research/wasting time etc on the lost Aquila (the Eagles) during the campaign of Crassus against the Parthians.
For those that know their Carrhae, things did not go well for the Romans.... and this famous (fictional according to WC) battle is now on record as one of Rome's worst military disasters.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Carrhae
We know (err) that the Eagles were recovered....but less well known (well at least up to the 1950s) is what actually happened to the Roman legionaries that survived
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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There is a lot of AE literature concerning 'the first finder' (Troy being our exemplar). Was the Rev Joyce the 'finder' of Silbury (still, I think, the exemplar of the Romano-British town). The eagle the Rev found looks more like a chicken to me. Which is significant for two reasons, one pro and one anti
1. The chicken was around in the nineteenth century but not the first
2. A forger would surely be forging a much more convincing eagle.
Do you consider there is anything more than coincidence between the two worst Roman defeats being Carrhae and Cannae? The German one against Arminius didn't get a name as far as I know.
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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We know (err) that the Eagles were recovered....but less well known (well at least up to the 1950s) is what actually happened to the Roman legionaries that survived |
In 1957 the polymath H. H. Dubs proposed in his book A Roman City in Ancient China, that a group of survivors from Crassus’ army ended their days in Li-Jien (Legion?) practicing warcraft as mercenaries for the Emperor of China.
Whether this theory was in part based with Homer's fascination with all things Chinese (son of chritian missionaries in China) and all things Roman is of course speculation....but this controversial account remains. The locals and the tourists remain convinced. Roman coins and pottery have been unearthed......The university has proven that 46% of the locals have genetic sequences similar to Europeans.
Rather sportingly the Authorities have built a pavilion with Roman marble statues to attract further visitors and boost the percentage of DNA...
https://beyondthirtynine.com/a-roman-legion-lost-in-china-2/
So is it Lost Legion or Legend?
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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| Mick Harper wrote: | | The eagle the Rev found looks more like a chicken to me. |
The eagle has been damaged and repaired, its wings are now missing. Time has not been kind.
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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I would strongly urge you to discover what 'damaged and repaired' means, when, where, by whom and for what purpose. In our Forgeries researches we discovered that some things were mysteriously, even miraculously, preserved in a wondrous condition while others had equally mysteriously, in your phrase, been unkindly treated by time. Though not, as it turned out, so unkindly for the present owners.
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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| Mick Harper wrote: | | Was the Rev Joyce the 'finder' of Silbury (still, I think, the exemplar of the Romano-British town). |
That might have been a rare slip on your part but I found it interesting.
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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| Mick Harper wrote: | | I would strongly urge you to discover what 'damaged and repaired' means, when, where, by whom and for what purpose. In our Forgeries researches we discovered that some things were mysteriously, even miraculously, preserved in a wondrous condition while others had equally mysteriously, in your phrase, been unkindly treated by time. Though not, as it turned out, so unkindly for the present owners. |
Will take a look.
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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And don't forget misdirection. While everyone is scrupulously debating whether it is a Roman legionary eagle or 'nothing more than scrap metal by the Romans' nobody is debating whether it is Roman or not. This is why 'first finder' is so important. Once the site is declared to be a Roman town, the internal debates can begin among the Romano-British specialists It would be more than their jobsworths to agree with Hatty et al over on the Megalithic site that Silchester is a very native site.
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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| That might have been a rare slip on your part but I found it interesting. |
Yes, I'm always getting them mixed up and, if you think about it, they really shouldn't be since Silbury is a 3000 BC earthwork and Silchester is a 100 AD Roman town. I wonder who did give them such similar names. Whoever it was, it's worked wonders for them both.
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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The Silchester Eagle inspired Rosemary Sutcliff to write her famous children's novel, The Eagle of the Ninth, about one of the Legions stationed in Britain that went missing after venturing the wrong side of Hadrian's Wall.
A couple of generations of children (even Wiley read it) were inspired by the story of a young Roman officer, Marcus Aquila, (geddit) travelling north in order to uncover the truth about his father, lost along with the Legion's battle standard, the bronze chicken.........
But who were the Ninth and did they really go missing in cold climes?
Dr Miles Russell, a senior lecturer in Prehistoric and Roman Archaeology at Bournemouth University, takes us through the evidence courtesy of the BBC
| One of the most enduring legends of Roman Britain concerns the disappearance of the Ninth Legion |
Aha....
| The historians have dissented, theorising that the Ninth did not disappear in Britain at all, arguing both book and film are wrong. Their theory has been far more mundane - the legion was, in fact, a victim of strategic transfer, swapping the cold expanse of northern England, for arid wastes in the Middle East. Here, sometime before AD 160, they were wiped out in a war against the Persians. |
Jesu some folks reckon they escaped the Picts only to get done over by the Persians?
| But, contrary to this view, there is not one shred of evidence that the Ninth were ever taken out of Britain. It's just a guess which, over time, has taken on a sheen of cast iron certainty. |
Not a shred. The Historians were wrong, and Archaeology is right.
| It would seem that Sutcliff was right after all. |
Hoorah, the Ninth, it seems, were slaughtered by the Picts after all.
| The ultimate legacy of the Ninth was the creation of a permanent border, forever dividing Britain. The origins of what were to become the independent kingdoms of England and Scotland may be traced to the loss of this unluckiest of Roman legions. |
I really like what he did there leaving us with a mental image of the border. Nice touch.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-12752497
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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Still was it the the "unluckiest"......legion, or for that matter legend. It does sound a tad familiar.
| Mick wrote: | | Do you consider there is anything more than coincidence between the two worst Roman defeats being Carrhae and Cannae? The German one against Arminius didn't get a name as far as I know |
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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| The Silchester Eagle inspired Rosemary Sutcliff to write her famous children's novel The Eagle of the Ninth |
A bit off-topic but these lady novelists are not to be underestimated. Josephine Tey's The Daughter of Time not only began the popular rehabilitation of Richard III but interest in revisionist history in general -- and on to the conspiracy theory industry. Jean Auel's The Clan of the Cave Bear kick-started a whole generation's enthusiasm for pre-history and archaeology.
If only I were a lady novelist.
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