| View previous topic :: View next topic |
Mick Harper
Site Admin

In: London
|
|
|
|
| What about the non-wacko who disputes one or other tenet of 'basic science'? |
I do this regularly enough, eg water in the oceans does not evaporate in the same way water in the laboratory does. Someone else on the list (from memory), Rupert Sheldrake, does eg species mutate over the ether rather than by physical reproduction. Neither of us is a wacko despite being accused of wackery by all apart from aficionados.
How can this be distinguished from, say, hollow earth theory or reptilians royals? Should they be? It might be a good policy to consider seriously all proto-wacko doctrines on the basis of wide dissemination. 'If lots of people believe them, they are entitled to a hearing.' Except that would leave mine out.
PS All this should be distinguished from things like Bigfoot or alien abduction which are not individuals-proposing-wacko-theories but widespread experiences that are not-as-reported.
PPS Or conspiracy theories which are a different genre entirely.
|
|
|
|
 |
|
Mick Harper
Site Admin

In: London
|
|
|
|
A good example of 'the tyranny of large numbers' was provided when the Iranians hit the streets earlier this year to be put down with some brutality by the regime. Nobody knows the number of Iranians killed all told, the Iranian government has certainly not supplied a figure, so competing numbers have been on offer.
My own estimate, based on similar outbreaks, was 'in the high hundreds'. The MSM agreed at first but later opted for 'in the low thousands'. The figure trended upwards as various bodies were cited as authoritative sources. Eventually US talking head pundits reached five figures, at which point US politicians were able to take over with a fairly standard 'in the tens of thousands'.
Yesterday, President Trump came out with a definitive 'forty-two thousand' though he did not cite a source. Presumably the US intelligence services have provided one but I don't know if the two figures are related.
My own estimate remains 'in the high hundreds'.
|
|
|
|
 |
|
Mick Harper
Site Admin

In: London
|
|
|
|
Many years ago I had an argument with someone here as to whether you could be both an AE-ist and a Christian. I thought not, he claimed he was. But what about belief in Bigfoot and signing up to AE-ism?
Same applies. You have to be a very hardline rationalist to be an AE-ist despite the rule about not subscribing to -isms. And despite the rule about not having rules. In the end the argument petered out when I claimed you couldn't be left-wing (etc) and a paid-up member. I turned out to be in a minority of one on that one.
So anyway, not to be too prescriptive about it, here are the actual rules as they were originally divulged to me in a leatherbound book I allegedly found in a second-hand bookshop in the Brighton Lanes...
|
|
|
|
 |
|
Mick Harper
Site Admin

In: London
|
|
|
|
While I'm thinking them up here's something that pertains to the post immediately above. I had posted a version of this on Substack yesterday and, as is my wont, this morning I (a) looked at how many views it had received (b) read it again for sub-editing purposes and (c) imagined a helpful response. What transpired was (a) 6 (b) a few little dibs and dabs and (c)
| You are showing your colours, Mr Harper, if you still think it was 'in the high hundreds'. |
I certainly was [I imaginatively replied] but not pro-Iranian colours. The purpose of adopting 'the tyranny of large numbers' credo is that you don't get swept ever-upwards by the psychology of everyone being anti-the Iranian regime (as well as the general effect of the phenomenon itself).
The critical point is in the jump from 'the high hundreds' to the 'low thousands'. The first has a definite limit, the other does not. But that is not the critical factor. 'Hundreds' carries the implication of the reaction being a 'policing' one. Brutish, to be sure, but not unreasonable for any authoritarian government fighting for its own survival.
'Thousands' conveys something different: a deliberate policy of retribution to discourage people doing it again.
It is perfectly possible that it was indeed thousands (even forty-two thousand) and the regime did have a such policy, but until this is established it is wise to assume 'normalcy'. It is not, generally speaking, to the benefit of any government that it wantonly kills its citizens. Certainly not if it is feels so tenuous that it has to advertise the fact by killing them in relative swathes.
'Just enough for business as usual,' is the watchword.
|
|
|
|
 |
|
Mick Harper
Site Admin

In: London
|
|
|
|
Returning to my 'What an AE-ist is allowed to believe and what he isn't allowed to believe' list, we agreed (that's not the royal we, it's me agreeing with myself) that the 'strict rationality' clause requires rejection of the world's major religions. But before you start arguing about what constitutes a religion and how major is major, we must get diverted to major and minor orthodoxies.
I never get tired of pointing out that
(1) AE-ists are orthodox by default. They are not contrarians or nihilists or mugwumps. If you spend your time arguing the toss about all sorts, you'll never get anywhere.
(2) Under AE rules, an orthodoxy is established as soon as two people believe it. The rule is necessary because of the need to distinguish between the the person who thought it up and people who were convinced by it.
Hence we can vaguely sketch out a few delimitations
(1) Karl Marx could have been an AE-ist
(2) An AE-ist could have been a Marxist in the mid-nineteenth century
(3) A Russian could have been a Marxist and an AE-ist in the mid-twentieth century
(4) All other Marxists fail on the religions rule.
You will notice however that this judgement requires me to know that not only is Marxism wrong, it is wrong in a peculiarly damning way. But I can point to statistics to aid me in this:
(1) There are enough Marxists in the world to establish Marxism is a rational belief.
(2) There are enough non-Marxists in the world to establish Marxism is a religion.
But this is true for pretty much all beliefs, so where does that take us? Surprisingly far...
|
|
|
|
 |
|
Mick Harper
Site Admin

In: London
|
|
|
|
Remember, we are looking for a way of sorting all the beliefs in the world into
must believe
may not believe
can believe
and making our own minds up about each belief as we come across it without having to study them all one by one. That is clearly impossible so you need a list of rules to judge a belief without having to study it. Actually even that is probably too much, you need to develop a reflex for recognising what should be believed, what should be rejected and what needs further study as you go along.
Technically, AE HQ could provide a list of rules. It could even provide a list of the beliefs you are likely to run into with a tick, cross or question mark attached. Though you would have to satisfy yourself they not only knew what they were doing but you yourself haven't joined under some quasi-religious urging.
This is all necessary because of the Bigfoot situation. Though I prefer the Kennedy assassination situation.
|
|
|
|
 |
|
Mick Harper
Site Admin

In: London
|
|
|
|
The essential problem with Bigfoot and Kennedy Assassination-type theories is that you could not possibly have arrived at your position--whatever it happens to be--conventionally. They are not taught in schools. (Or by parents. Or church. Or in study groups.)
| They exist only as ideas floating around in the zeitgeist. |
But, strangely, this means you are likely to know more about them than if they had been taught in school. You have certainly acquired more data--possibly more understanding--of the Kennedy Assassination than you have of, say, trigonometry.
This poses a special problem for AE because AE-ists are in the same boat, so how are a conclave of AE-ists going to rule on them? But there is a rule all the same.
| Don't believe in any of them. |
You may occasionally be wrong but it won't make much difference because not much hangs by any of them being either true or false. They should be treated as essentially entertainment.
'Do you go to the theatre much?'
'No, I prefer to stay at home watching Bigfoot material on cable and Youtube.'
'So you believe in Bigfoot?'
'I wouldn't go that far...'
But now we would need a yardstick by which to define such theories.
|
|
|
|
 |
|
Mick Harper
Site Admin

In: London
|
|
|
|
Global warming is a nice example of a crossover academic theory. When it started life in the 1960's/ 1970's, it was held by people who were academics, it was presented using academic tools, but it was not taught as an academic theory. Now you would lose your job if you didn't teach it.
Global warming (by human intervention) might conceivably have been conceived by an AE-ist but no AE-ist could sign up to its tenets because its adherents were so obviously a coterie. Unless by chance an AE-ist decided to make up his or her own mind, though this would have been unwise given the nature of the evidence. An agnostic position would have been correct.
| [N. B. After talking this over with Pete Jones, this should read 'An agnostic position would be the furthest an AE-ist could go.] |
However as Global Warming became respectable--and the evidence for it started to build up--an AE-ist would have to consider joining the ranks of believers on simple 'rationalist' grounds. By the time only professional sceptics were left opposing the fact of global warming (i.e political rightists, fossil fuel apologists and all-purpose conspiracy theorists), it would have been equally and oppositely the case that an AE-ist would now be obliged to accept it, sight unseen.
Warts and all. Because, naturally enough, diving in and looking for the errors baked into it by its coterie origins would be de rigueur.
|
|
|
|
 |
|
Mick Harper
Site Admin

In: London
|
|
|
|
The Tyranny of Small Numbers
Gas prices before the war $2.98
Gas prices now $4.XX |
That's the way all MSM choose to show one of the dire effects of the Iran War whenever the XX moves upwards. (It was $4.45 last night.) However, the average price at 'the American forecourt' is impossible to estimate to the last penny so the AEL is offering a prize to anyone who spotted this on any MSM at any time
Gas prices before the war $3.01
Gas prices now $4.XX |
|
|
|
|
 |
|
Pete Jones
Site Admin

In: Virginia
|
|
|
|
|
CNN has been running a constant ticker, just below the main headline, on its website since the war began. Oodles of coverage, all the time. They really hate higher prices!
|
|
|
|
 |
|
Mick Harper
Site Admin

In: London
|
|
|
|
After many years I had to stop watching CNN when they started charging my cable-provider to put it on their list. So they didn't and everybody stopped watching CNN. Now they provide it free again. See! They really do care about inflation.
PS They can't persuade any British advertiser to appear on it though. So they are doing it out of the goodness of their heart.
|
|
|
|
 |
|
Mick Harper
Site Admin

In: London
|
|
|
|
Spot the bogus list
| Channel 4 has pulled all episodes of Married at First Sight UK after Panorama revealed there had been two complaints of rape and one of a non-consensual act of a sexual nature from contestants. |
Rape is one of the most serious crimes in the book and can get a life sentence. We are not told what the 'non-consensual act' was but that very fact implies it was at the bottom-touching end of the scale. This is somewhat akin to
| The defendant was later charged with two murders and a parking offence when waiting for the first victim. |
I know nothing about the case itself--I always fast forward through these things--but as soon as the bogus list aspect was noted, I was able to wonder just how likely it is that
* two rapists would be included among a random assortment of casual sex reality-show contestants
* two rape victims would not go to the police (or do anything much at all) among a random assortment of casual sex reality-show contestants
* how many low-level sexual malpractices would be revealed were you to interview a random assortment of casual sex reality-show contestants
* how much cognisance should be paid to complaints from a random assortment of casual sex reality-show contestants, i.e. people desirous of earning money for etc etc
|
|
|
|
 |
|
Grant

|
|
|
|
Surely it's not jump out from the bushes type rape, it's a man being "married" and expecting some nookie type rape.
Plus a nice bit of compy to be earned by all.
|
|
|
|
 |
|
Mick Harper
Site Admin

In: London
|
|
|
|
I've been advocating gradations of rape for years but the law doesn't recognise anything but penetrative sex without consent. Whatever you thought you were on to, without a signed document you're going dahn.
The trouble with earning compy is that contestants on reality shows only do it because they're dead broke. So settling out of court with another contestant, Andrew/style, is not good business. Panorama doesn't offer dosh for spilling the beans, genuine or otherwise, but I suppose it's worth mentioning on the offchance.
"Don't go, Mr Mangold, I haven't told you about how I was raped yet."
|
|
|
|
 |
|
Mick Harper
Site Admin

In: London
|
|
|
|
| If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything. |
This was cited approvingly on Newsnight. It's snappy and sounds right. Of course it's bollocks. The correct version is
| If you stand for something, you've already fallen for everything. |
|
|
|
|
 |
|
|