| View previous topic :: View next topic |
Boreades
In: finity and beyond
|
|
 |
|
 |
|
Ishmael
In: Toronto
|
|
 |
|
| Mick Harper wrote: | | The one thing we know for reasonable certainty about the Cro-Magnons is that they had an animal-derived toolkit. Now this surely means that they lived on intimate terms with animals. This is rather different from Hominid and some Human cultures which hunt animals, butcher animals, cook animals and eat animals. We, for instance, do not live intimately with animals, they are just grist-for-our-mill. (Taking this a little further, we should note that both Lapps and Plains Indians have a 'religion' that puts animals at the heart of things -- quite unlike our own attitudes). |
Perhaps Orthodoxy is catching up with you.
Did Dog-Human Alliance Drive Out the Neanderthals?
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Hatty
Site Admin
In: Berkshire
|
|
|
|
A palaeoanthropologist's discovery of a hitherto unknown early human species in a cave system in South Africa, never explored before despite being popular with cavers, is pretty astonishing. In the words of the palaeoanthropologist himself, almost no hominid remains exist anywhere apart from the odd bit of tooth and there are more people looking for fragments than actual fragments.
Even more astonishingly, it is the second time he's found a hitherto unknown early human species. In 2008, in a cave system not far from the second find, he found a fossilised skeleton, some bits ape-like and other bits human-like. In both cases the bodies are said to have been intentionally placed there/ disposed of.
Am I unduly suspicious to see a Schliemann parallel?
[Interestingly, they the opening scene of Kubrick's 2001: A Space Odyssey featured in the programme, one might wonder if sci-fi has overtaken reality.]
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
|
|
|
|
Some fascinating 'careful ignoral' going on here, an article about getting Neanderthal DNA from urine.
http://q-mag.org/early-human-dna-found-widely-and-not-in-bones.html
Reams and reams of stuff about 'process' i.e "How clever we are to get such a lot out of so little. Hold the front page!" but nothing about the actual results "This is the first scientific test of the paradigm. We'll get back to you. These things are subject to interpretation. Know what I mean, John?"
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Boreades
In: finity and beyond
|
|
|
|
|
What happened to the "Out Of Norfolk" tales?
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Hatty wrote: | | People struggle without energy drinks and always assume they're the first to enter cave complexes since prehistoric times for no other reason than they haven't been written about. In one of his books on French history, Graham Robb described villagers hibernating in caves until recent times. I think the villages were in the Alps where nothing much could be done in winter but it may be that overwintering in caves wasn't solely a practice of French mountain villages. |
Is their revisionism based on facts and findings though?
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Hatty
Site Admin
In: Berkshire
|
|
|
|
|
People always assume they're the first to enter cave complexes since prehistoric times for no other reason than they haven't been written about. In one of his books on French history, Graham Robb described villagers hibernating in caves until recent times. I think the villages were in the Alps where nothing much could be done in winter but it may be that overwintering in caves wasn't solely a practice of French mountain villages.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Boreades
In: finity and beyond
|
|
|
|
| Mick Harper wrote: | | The one thing we know for reasonable certainty about the Cro-Magnons is that they had an animal-derived toolkit. Now this surely means that they lived on intimate terms with animals. This is rather different from Hominid and some Human cultures which hunt animals, butcher animals, cook animals and eat animals. We, for instance, do not live intimately with animals, they are just grist-for-our-mill. (Taking this a little further, we should note that both Lapps and Plains Indians have a 'religion' that puts animals at the heart of things -- quite unlike our own attitudes). |
What do you mean "we" White City man?
Some of us simple rural folks are still living on intimate terms with animals. Here, it's dogs, chickens and hamsters. Only the chickens aren't allowed in the house, they make a mess everywhere. It's bad enough with the teenage children.
We're just teaching the youngest puppy to retrieve hen's eggs in her mouth without breaking them.
Think of us as the "low-impact" bumble bees. Whereas city folks are living more intensive lives in a human beehive that needs a lot more maintenance.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
|
|
|
|
I fear your distaste for people living east of White City has led you astray. If we take the orthodox view of hunter-gatherers, whether from palaeo-anthropologists or the TV screen, you will find that animals are 'other'. You hunt 'em, you eat 'em. After you've eaten 'em you may use their skin'n'bones, you may not. Nothing ever changes and nothing has changed from Palaeolithic times to the TV documentary age. That's why AE rejects the orthodox 'hunter-gatherer-hasn't-he-done-well?' model.
Compare and contrast with Cro-Magnon in his Wiltshire eyrie. He, his family and their animals are an organic whole. Scroll on a few thousand years and we have people in Wiltshire with jobs and Waitroses who like to play at being Cro-Magnon but the Cro-Magnon model, unlike the hunter-gatherer model, has developed so much that we need have no personal truck with animals at all. We buy 'em and we eat 'em. We may hunt 'em and not eat 'em, we may even keep 'em and eat 'em, but only for therapeutic purposes.
People at the very acme of this ascent have no personal truck with people either. After that it's mostly brain tissue in glass jars.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Grant
|
|
|
|
|
I remember reading about an exploration into the Amazon or somewhere in Africa, can’t remember exactly. Anyway, the explorers assumed that the locals communed with nature and understood the delicate ecosystem. They were disappointed to discover that there were only a few words for all the jungle creatures: big bird, little bird, big cat, little cat, edible plant, inedible plant
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Hatty
Site Admin
In: Berkshire
|
|
|
|
|
It may be the explorers' linguistic skills didn't extend beyond big cat, little cat, etc. How many weeks/ months/ years did they stick around?
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
|
|
|
|
|
Always the romantic. The Noble Savage myth is the bane of both history and politics. Basically, they're all hopeless. For AE purposes it is better to be a white supremacist but be prepared to give way to the Chinese for most of the past and the immediate future.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Boreades
In: finity and beyond
|
|
|
|
| Grant wrote: | | They were disappointed to discover that there were only a few words for all the jungle creatures: big bird, little bird, big cat, little cat, edible plant, inedible plant |
Lost in translation?
Did something similar when the Normans arrived and started to compile the Domesday Book? Perhaps they asked some Brittonic locals what the river was called. It's called Afon or Avon. So they called it the River Avon. The River River.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
|
|
|
|
|
Who are these 'Brittonic' people tending their rivers in 1066?
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
The Library Index 
FAQ 
Search
Register
Profile 
Log in to check your private messages 
Log in 
