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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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Don't dismiss water-borne timing mechanisms so quickly. I know it sounds like a giant game of Pooh-sticks but measuring how far something travels down a known stretch of flowing water is not the worst mechanism in the world. We have not discussed how the Ancients did time things.
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Keimpe
In: Leeuwarden, Frisia
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| Mick Harper wrote: |
Surely all circumferences are equally important when it comes to measuring...um...the circumference. They are all the same after all.
Unless you are claiming that the Ancients knew about the polar dent and the equatorial bulge and felt these worth measuring. |
I'm not sure they knew about the bulge, but if they knew (or suspected) it, they had to have measured the polar circumference, because all the others are different, because of the bulge.
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Keimpe
In: Leeuwarden, Frisia
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| Mick Harper wrote: | | We have not discussed how the Ancients did time things. |
You mean like keeping track of what day it is?
Maybe they used the stones Stukeley saw (and drew) in the 18th century:
If this drawing is any accurate, it might depict a calendar: I count some 360 stones (when I count all the stones except the two round eyes top center (Avebury)). The outer two circles of the two round eyes consist of some 28 to 30 stones, which might depict the lunar cycle.
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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No, no, everybody and his dog discusses the Ancients and their calendars. Only we are concerned with timing. Seconds preferably rather than minutes. List your suggestions here.
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Keimpe
In: Leeuwarden, Frisia
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Well, ehm, something shiny on top of Silbury Hill could turn the entire Avebury stone circle into a giant clock?
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Keimpe
In: Leeuwarden, Frisia
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And look at Stukeley's picture above (Silbury Hill is bottom center). The sun comes up in the east and travels through the southern sky. During this entire trip the sun shines on the stones. A simple pole or stick on Silbury Hill could then cast a shadow, telling the time.
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Chad
In: Ramsbottom
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We need a method that doesn't rely on our rather unreliable view of the sun. We don't want time to stand still on those all too frequent grey and rainy days.
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Keimpe
In: Leeuwarden, Frisia
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But wouldn't that require some mechanical solution? Something like this perhaps?
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Chad
In: Ramsbottom
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If the time period to be measured isn't too long; simply counting with the aid of a swinging pendulum is extremely accurate and repeatable... so long as all the pendula are standardised.
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Hatty
Site Admin
In: Berkshire
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| Chad wrote: | | We need a method that doesn't rely on our rather unreliable view of the sun. We don't want time to stand still on those all too frequent grey and rainy days. |
It is harder to see a flash of light from a bronze shield or whatever in bright sunlight. I suppose sunrise and sunset would be dull enough but you would need the sun to be high enough to make the shield flash.
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Hatty
Site Admin
In: Berkshire
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You often get copses on top of hills, copses that are inhabited by noisy birds like rooks. If you made a loud noise and startled them you would have sight and sound signals for the benefit of listening watchers.
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Chad
In: Ramsbottom
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Sorry, it seems I got this one very wrong when I wrote:
| If the time period to be measured isn't too long; simply counting with the aid of a swinging pendulum is extremely accurate and repeatable. |
I had forgotten that it wasn't until about four hundred years ago that somebody actually noticed that dangly things swing back and forward at a constant rate... Good old Galileo.
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Chad
In: Ramsbottom
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I've just been out walking the dogs (in the rain) when I realised that it's actually very easy to count rhythmically, even without Galileo's pendulum. Once I got into the swing of things, I could count out minutes in my head to an accuracy of about plus or minus two seconds. With practice, a professional counter would become extremely accurate.
Think about well drilled soldiers; not only do they march in synchronicity but their steps are taken at precise intervals and are of precise length.
Length of pace and time in marching
1. Length of pace. - In slow and in quick time the length of a pace is 30 inches. In stepping out it is 33 inches, in double time, 40 ; in stepping short, 21 ; and in the side pace, 12 inches.
2. Time. - In slow time 70 paces are taken in one minute. In quick time 120 paces, equal to 100 yards, are taken in a minute.
In double time 180 paces, equal to 200 yards a minute are taken. The time of the side pace is the same as for quick time.
3. Marching in slow time will be practiced only in the early stages of recruits' training, and when required for ceremonial purposes.
4. The recruit will be practiced in changing the cadence of the pace, without halting, on the commands "Break into double ( quick or slow) time - Double ( quick or slow) march."
5. Distances of 100 and 200 yards will be marked on the drill ground, and all ranks practiced in keeping correct time and length of pace. |
There you have not only an accurate method of time keeping but also of measuring long distances across flat terrain. (Far better than Eratosthenes camel train.)
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Hatty
Site Admin
In: Berkshire
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| Can I say here what I think these hill forts were for |
These hill forts as they're called are between ten and fifteen miles apart, nearer ten. I read somewhere that drovers travelled not more than twelve miles a day on average. The Ridgeway, being above the spring line, has no villages with their attendant pubs. It stands to reason that people and their animals needed somewhere offering shelter and provisions.
If you look at footpaths which were drovers' routes they pass through villages with a green on the main street where animals were routinely allowed to rest and graze en route. The villages are fairly evenly spaced out, much as 'hill forts' are.
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Hatty
Site Admin
In: Berkshire
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Royston appears to figure somewhere in the business of sightings/measurings. It is bisected by Ermine Street but more importantly by the Icknield Way, ie. the continuation of the Ridgeway, so its position had been mapped top to bottom.
I read that the scarp that the Icknield Way follows is visible from Wiltshire. Haven't put this extraordinary assertion to a practical test though. Surely distances between 'hill forts' aka hostelries on such a well-travelled route as The Ridgeway/Icknield Way would be known and marked accordingly at appropriate intervals. It would be the obvious choice when geomancers needed to measure angles x miles apart. Oh, and Royston is on the Michael Line.
PS. Royston's mascot is the Hooded Crow. Not sure what the difference is between hooded and unhooded but the bird is undoubtedly significant.
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