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Questions Of The Day (Politics)
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Mick Harper
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Well, yes, there is a possible AE interest in victim numbers. As we have mentioned before, social housing is enormously subsidised, and nowhere more than in Kensington where a social rent may be a tenth of the true one. It follows that nobody willingly gives up a council flat. It follows from this that multiple occupation by unidentified people on a large scale -- we're talking thousands -- is a certainty;

And yet none of this fits your story. It is true Kensington Council have an interest in hiding their incompetence in managing social housing--I'll tell you another time of the outfit that manages the block of flats, it's minorly scandalous. Ditto the government to some extent. Ditto definitely the people doing the illegal subletting. But nothing anywhere close to a reason to 'hide the bodies'. which is in fact a very technical task requiring multiple individuals and agencies. We are after all entering Katyn territory.
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Mick Harper
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PS. You could have worked this out without local knowledge if you'd paid attention to the following. My comments in square brackets.

This morning, Grime artist Saskilla [left wing, agit prop] told the BBC’s Victoria Derbyshire programme [BBC women lap this sort of thing up] that he had been told personally [people rarely say 'personally' when reporting conversations because they are by definition personal] by one of the firefighters at Grenfell Tower [who would be subject to disciplinary action whether it was true or false for any such thing. "Had a hard day, darling?" "Rather, darling, but I ran into that grime artist, what's his name ..."] that around [bodies are carefully counted for a variety of forensic purposes] two hundred bodies had already been identified at the scene of the terrifying blaze [and disseminated it would seem to quite junior ranks]. The presenter attempted to pour water on the figure [let us hope she did not use such an unfortunate phrase on air], but the musician insisted it was what he was told in person by the firefighter [personally, in person, person to person].

This is not to say that the body count will not in fact rise substantially. There will be no cover up though.
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Boreades


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Mick Harper wrote:
It is true Kensington Council have an interest in hiding their incompetence in managing social housing--I'll tell you another time of the outfit that manages the block of flats, it's minorly scandalous. .


Kensington & Chelsea Tenant Management Organisation (KCTMO) ?

Is that connected with this?

The news media are rightly reporting the warnings issued by the Grenfell Action Group (GAG) blog that its warnings about the dangers of the building would only be heeded when a disaster occurred.

But what they are not reporting is that the Tory-run Kensington and Chelsea Borough Council threatened the GAG with legal action if it did not delete its posts criticising the performance of the council and its officers for their actions/inaction concerning the risks.


https://skwawkbox.org/2017/06/15/council-lawyers-letter-to-grenfell-blogger-stop-harrassing-us/
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Mick Harper
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Oh dear. Judging by results again, are we?. How many times must I tell you the dangers of this. But I will return to the subject in due time.
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Boreades


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Judging by results? No, just commenting on your comments. I'm not an expert on Rotten Boroughs or any such allegations by disgruntled locals.
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Mick Harper
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I do apologise. I thought you were citing these ludicrous statements favourably.
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Boreades


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My apologies for the ambiguity. I only mentioned the "200" story because it seemed so improbable.
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Mick Harper
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I'm not an expert on Rotten Boroughs or any such allegations by disgruntled locals.

Why not? It is a universal phenomenon. I might emphasise that Kensington & Chelsea is probably the least rotten borough not just in the world but in the whole of recorded history. Now you are on the scent, Borry, and as it were firmly in the correct saddle, perhaps you can tell us why.
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Mick Harper
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The answer of course is that it is rich. Mega rich, the richest borough in Britain. It can afford to be beneficent. Not only that, the rich burghers in the south have every reason to pacify the lower orders north of—as it happens—my street. Nevertheless, this is all relatively recent. Before the Summer of Love, Notting Hill was not only famously poor, it was famously neglected. Beginning with Britain’s first race riots in 1958 and then Rillington Place and Rachmanism, the place was getting to be an embarrassment.

Not just to the local burghers but to the central government, many of whose leading lights were local lights. So money was hurled at the problem in prodigious quantities. Remember this next time you hear somebody mouthing off about how neglected they have been. It is not too strong to say that they got what they wished for. As you will see when we return to Summerland.
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Mick Harper
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Summerland was a 1960s concrete design incorporating advanced controlled internal climate, built with novel construction techniques using new plastic materials. The street frontage and part of the roof was clad in Oroglas, a transparent acrylic glass sheeting.

Sound familiar? Well, yes, but only to a point. Grenfell Tower was of the same vintage but social housing, then or now, does not have fancy glass frontages. Besides this was not what caused the Summerland fire.

The fire started around 7:30 p.m. on 2 August 1973 and was caused by three boys who were smoking in a small, disused kiosk adjacent to the centre's miniature golf course. Eventually the burning kiosk collapsed against the exterior of the building. This part of the building was clad in a material called Galbestos—profiled steel sheeting with asbestos felt on both sides coated with bitumen, with limited fire-resistance qualities.

The fire spread to the wall's interior soundproofing material, which also had poor fire-resistance qualities, causing an explosion that ignited the highly flammable acrylic sheeting which covered the rest of the building. The fire spread quickly across the sheeting on the leisure centre walls and roof, and through vents which were not properly fireproofed. The acrylic melted, which allowed more oxygen to enter and dropped burning melted material, both starting other fires and injuring those trying to escape. The building's open-plan design included many unblocked internal spaces that acted as chimneys, adding to the conflagration.

There was no attempt to evacuate the 3,000 people present until the visible evidence of the flames prompted a panic-stricken mass rush for the exits.

Ask yourself why this apparently obvious fire trap was built in the first place. But, please, ask yourself as an Applied Epistemologist, not as some affronted know-it-all after the event.
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Mick Harper
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Because the Isle of Man was rich. And because tourism is its major industry. So, no expense was spared when building Summerland. ‘No expense spared’ is an Applied Epistemological red flag—it denotes something out of the ordinary, our old friend the world record. Our old friend, the exception to the Bayesian Rule. Might I draw your attention to the previous tower block that went up in flames—the one in Dubai. You may be sure no expense was spared on that one too.

So what do we know about tower blocks and fire? That they are incredibly safe. There are thousands of tower blocks the world over, they have been around for more than a hundred years, and while fires are a dime a doze, tower blocks going up like torches are, until Dubai and Grenfell, practically unknown. Even the Twin Towers did not go up in flames, Grenfell style, after being doused by a thousand tons of burning kerosene. They collapsed first. Ponder on the difference. And ponder on why conspiracy theories about the Twin Towers are possible. Then you'll get your answer about Grenfell.

The Applied Epistemological answer of course, not the one the public enquiry will eventually come up with.
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Boreades


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Mick Harper wrote:
The fire started around 7:30 p.m. on 2 August 1973 and was caused by three boys who were smoking in a small, disused kiosk adjacent to the centre's miniature golf course.


Aha, the old "boys" excuse. Like the one on Anglesey?

During the evening of 23 May 1970 the (Britannia) bridge was greatly damaged when boys playing inside the bridge dropped a burning torch, setting alight the tar-coated wooden roof of the tubes. Despite the best efforts of the Caernarfonshire and Anglesey fire brigades, the bridge's height, construction, and the lack of an adequate water supply meant they were unable to control the fire, which spread all the way across from the mainland to the Anglesey side. After the fire had burned itself out the bridge was still standing, but the structural integrity of the iron tubes had been critically compromised by the intense heat.


Given the attraction that pyrotechnics (and even arson) have for many boys, one might be amazed there are not more incidents of this kind.
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Mick Harper
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I have no doubt the original cause will be something similar. It is of minor importance but one should note a complete lack of interest in this aspect since it gets in the way of the crazed witch hunt to Name the Guilty Men. Presently, and in order of precedence: the government, Kensington Borough Council, and the building industry. As in most witch hunts, they are all quite innocent but we shall be naming the real Guilty Man presently.

One heartwarming aspect of your boy-arsonist post, Borry, was this from the Liverpool Echo

On September 17, 1973, three Liverpool boys – two of them 12 and the other 14 – appeared before Douglas Juvenile Court and admitted wilfully and unlawfully damaging the lock of a plastic kiosk next to Summerland. They were each fined £3 and ordered to pay 33p compensation and 15p costs.

A very nice way of dealing with trauma in my opinion.
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aurelius



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Writing in the Observer, Mr Khan suggested that high-rise tower blocks dating from the 1960s and 1970s could be torn down in the wake of the fire, which he said may well be the "defining outcome of this tragedy".


All very well, but better that the defining outcome was better judgement in tarting up old housing blocks.
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Mick Harper
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One weeps to be governed by such poltroons. And I had formed a provisionally favourable impression of him too. More people died this year on motorways built in the sixties and seventies, we must demolish them next.
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