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Mick Harper
Site Admin

In: London
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I demand you stop making nuclear weapons.
I'm not making nuclear weapons.
I'll give you billions of dollars if you stop.
Oh, all right, if you twist my arm, I'll carry on not making nuclear weapons.
In that case I can lift the sanctions imposed on you for making nuclear weapons as well.
Does that mean I can buy some new Swiss centrifuges?
Whatever.
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Mick Harper
Site Admin

In: London
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You haven't achieved any of your war aims, have you?.
Like what?
Regime change, for instance.
Of course I achieved regime change.
So how are you getting along with the new one?
Really well. They seem very sensible.
So their leader has forgiven you for putting him in hospital with life changing injuries and killing his revered father?
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Mick Harper
Site Admin

In: London
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The Cage Fight Plot is of exceptional technical interest for professional conspiracists such as myself. The methodology--organising dozens of people via chat rooms to go out and buy roomfuls of heavy weaponry then meeting up in Washington on Donald Trump's birthday, to launch drones during the UFC event on the White House lawn, thereby creating sufficient pandemonium in the audience and disarray among law enforcement as to enable the picking off of individual targets with sniper fire--was visionary, though perhaps open to criticism in detail.
It introduced a new term in the revolutionary lexicon to most people (not me obviously): Accelerationism. The people who espouse the doctrine are hence 'accelerationists' though they prefer the more homely accelarists.
They are part of the broad church of what we would call 'nihilism' though of course what they mean is the engendering of a period of chaos of such intensity that they would ride to the rescue with their solution, and be thanked for it.
Their broad political position can be understood by the fact that their plot was intended to remove the Trump government for being too liberal. Their goal is a return to the eighteenth century--hence outflanking socialists who look to the nineteenth--and the reinstatement of an America of exclusively male white Anglo-Saxon Protestants. Though I understand there is a place for women and blacks.
Not being American I hesitate to offer any value judgements.
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Mick Harper
Site Admin

In: London
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Now the Memorandum of Understanding has finally been published, should we agree with the catcalls from all sides?
'It's a surrender by America.'
'It's a sell out to the Iranians.'
'We got this after all we've been through?'
'Obama's settlement was better.'
Yadda yadda. No, we shouldn't. It's true it is nowhere near what I was confidently predicting but there are reasons to be pleased. And not just because it is a return to the relative peace and quiet of the status quo ante.
What people forget is that all the nuclear stuff was strictly performative. What was required was the reining in of the Iranians to prevent them going round causing mischief where 'ere they pleased. They cannot do this any longer because it will jeopardise all those billions she needs to rebuild what the USA and Israel have cast asunder by their bombing.
And, yes, we do have a regime change. Not the one Trump (and most Iranians) were hoping for but one consisting of a loose alliance of IRGC honchos and some parliamentary leftovers. Their number one task is not spreading the Shiite revolution so beloved of the previous entrenched Mullah regime, it is making Iran livable again. And fast or they won't be there long enough to get entrenched in anything except their graves.
That can only be done with vast inflows of capital and will only happen if a modicum of good Iranian behaviour is shown. So they can kiss goodbye to any thoughts of tolling the Strait. And the Houthis, Hamas, Hezbollah (and allied outfits) can kiss goodbye to Iranian largesse.
Of course that means Israel running rampant but one bunch of arseholes at a time.
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Grant

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Most crucial goal for Iran must be to build more drones, preferably long-distance ones which can reach the USA. Only if Americans feel threatened by the mayhem they have caused will they stop causing the mayhem.
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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Iran is regularising it control of the Strait.
Shipping companies that want to transit the Strait must, contact the new Autority ie the Persian Gulf Strait Authority (PGSA), submit a prior request (sic), include vessel contact details and route information, and then coordinate their route and transit timing with the (PGSA) before entering the Strait.
During the stated 60-day MOU period, no fees will be charged for security/safety/environmental services, and insurance will be covered by the Iranian government.
My guess is that during these 60 days, a regional transit scheme will be agreed, that will allow for the future charging of fees not tolls.
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Mick Harper
Site Admin

In: London
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That's a bogus alternative, Wiley. If it's a fee nobody will even notice. Fifty dollars a ship, should do it, I reckon, the cost of putting out a few buoys. Hundreds of thousands of ships have managed to pass the Strait, in and out, without Iran's help, so what's changed?
If it's a toll masquerading as a fee, costing say a million dollars a ship, then we need to talk.
| a regional transit scheme will be agreed |
By whom? The only body that can agree anything is the UN and I can't see many people in the General Assembly volunteering to pay millions of dollars, not to mention opening dozens of Pandora's Straits all over the world.
If you mean the other Gulf states then, as I have explained already, they will have to pay the million bucks or no-one will come and fetch their oil. Which I admit they certainly would do if Iran can make it stick.
But that includes Oman. Even the most grasping Iranian government is going to have a hard job stopping ships going through the Strait on the Omani side by having IRGC gunboats invading their territorial waters and shooting up their guests. But OK, maybe Oman can be forced into line as well.
We can leave America out of the picture. As Trump explained to us they hardly use the wretched thing. In any case, once bitten, twice shy.
But we can't leave out China, India, the EU, the UK, Russia, everyone else really. You know, the people holding all those Iranian assets. Buying Iranian oil (without necessarily having to). Generally looking favourably or unfavourably on the somewhat precarious Nation of Allah (Shiite branch).
In fact, the way I see it, you've got Iran in favour of paying a million dollars per, and everyone else in the known universe firmly against it. What are the odds?
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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For now, Iran appears to retain the power to close the Strait, the IRGC merely announces it is closed and the majority of shipowners are going to play by Iranian (Persian Gulf Strait Authority) rules or will stay away.
There are no clear traffic management procedures' backed by a credible security guarantee, that would ensure the Strait returns to its pre war situation.
| Lloyds List wrote: |
Iran’s Persian Gulf Strait Authority is imposing mandatory, Iran approved insurance for all ships using the Strait of Hormuz — free for 60 days, but with fees likely afterward
The move challenges a US-Iran agreement guaranteeing toll free passage
Iran demands vessels use its preferred northern route, with threats of penalties for non compliance
Shipowners, MEG states and IMO warn the policy could destabilise transit norms, while US officials emphasise keeping the strait open as negotiations continue on a long term framework |
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Mick Harper
Site Admin

In: London
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| Wiley wrote: | | For now, Iran appears to retain the power to close the Strait, the IRGC merely announces it is closed and the majority of shipowners are going to play by Iranian (Persian Gulf Strait Authority) rules or will stay away. |
This is because of the 'Houthi Equation'. In today's world it's never worth having a damaged tanker or an oil spill just to deliver oil, irrespective of the chances of it actually happening. It's all very absolute. This is not the north Atlantic c 1942.
| There are no clear traffic management procedures' backed by a credible security guarantee, that would ensure the Strait returns to its pre war situation. |
It does not require 'management procedures' to control traffic through the Strait. As with, say, the English Channel, there are established lanes for going thisaway or thataway which are followed by every ship of its own accord, observing the normal rules of navigation. A credible security guarantee is not required either. Only a guarantee against insecurity.
Lloyds List wrote:
Iran’s Persian Gulf Strait Authority is imposing mandatory, Iran approved insurance for all ships using the Strait of Hormuz — free for 60 days, but with fees likely afterward
The move challenges a US-Iran agreement guaranteeing toll free passage |
Then Lloyd's List doesn't know what it's talking about. Properly speaking, the 'Agreement' hasn't started yet since Schedule One is the establishment of a ceasefire in Lebanon. There is nothing in it about what Iran can or cannot do, only a prohibition about doing anything at all in the sixty days of the Agreement's lifespan.
Which is indefinitely renewable, meaning Iran will have to carry on doing nothing unless another, different Agreement is arrived at. Or, of course, Iran decides unilaterally to go to war with the maritime nations of the world.
| Iran demands vessels use its preferred northern route, with threats of penalties for non compliance. Shipowners, MEG states and IMO warn the policy could destabilise transit norms, while US officials emphasise keeping the strait open as negotiations continue on a long term framework |
Iran can demand whatever it wants. It doesn't matter a squit unless Iran wants to go to war with the maritime nations of the world.
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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Iran can demand whatever it wants. It doesn't matter a squit unless Iran wants to go to war with the maritime nations of the world.
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Who exactly is going to support this ?
Are you suggesting another Operation Prosperity Guardian ?
What was the outcome of that one?
| wiki wrote: | The Houthis agreed to halt attacks on US vessels in the Red Sea but emphasized that the ceasefire did not in "any way, shape, or form" apply to Israel.[34] While Trump framed the truce as the Houthis having "capitulated" and not "want[ing] to fight anymore," while also having shown "a lot of bravery," the Houthis stated that it was in fact the U.S. that "backed down."[35] Administration officials interviewed by The New York Times said that Trump agreed to the cease fire because the airstrikes were not achieving their objectives and the United States failed to achieve air superiority against the Houthis.[36]
After the ceasefire was implemented, attacks on commercial shipping resumed. Operation Aspides a "purely defensive" EU military operation has continued to provide limited protection to shipping.[37] |
Ship owners requre Houthi permission to transit.
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Mick Harper
Site Admin

In: London
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Iran can demand whatever it wants. It doesn't matter a squit unless Iran wants to go to war with the maritime nations of the world.
Who exactly is going to support this? Are you suggesting another Operation Prosperity Guardian? What was the outcome of that one? |
If you recall, Iran overturned its own -- and everyone else's view -- of international waterways when it was bombed by the USA and Israel. I am suggesting that, if this is no longer the case, they are unlikely to take this extreme step.
| Ship owners requre Houthi permission to transit. |
Like I said. And they got a shedload of bombs for their trouble, but no money. And it was well worth it! You can do that sort of thing when you're a ragtag bunch of insurgents. I don't think that's how the IRGC see themselves.
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Mick Harper
Site Admin

In: London
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In the hope this will end a fascinating (to us) but possibly overlong (for everyone else) dispute between us, Wiley, I will concede
1. There is a possibility that for reasons of expediency Trump will, formally or tacitly, allow an Iranian tolling system to be established.
2. There is a possibility that the UN will decide not to effectually intervene in this arrangement.
3. There is the possibility that the other Gulf states will acquiesce for the sake of peace and harmony.
4. There is a possibility that maritime nations will advise their ships to pay up.
I just don't think it will happen. Not in the long term. Say, two years from now.
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