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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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No other refugees are accommodated pending a durable solution, which is normally an offer of citizenship in the country they have become settled in. Descendents will then become nationals of that country. So a Syrian would, say, flee Assad to Germany, be offered asylum, then be granted German nationality, any new descendents become German etc. So at that point they cease to be a refugee family, irrespective of not being in Syria. They would no longer be counted or supported by United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees, they are German.
Palestinian fathers since 1949 have been passing on their refugee status to their children, that is one reason why the Palestinian refugee numbers are always growing. I think it's 2-3 million getting services from UNRWA, that is why the UNRWA budget exceeds the totals for all other refugees worldwide, because they get the children, and then children of children, all waiting to return. These Palestinians are not becoming nationals of other countries. That is why the UNRWA budget is large and always growing, even when there was no Israel Palestinian fighting. They in effect need to support the growing Palestinian population who are still waiting to return.
Trump is in effect saying that Egypt and Jordan should take in the Palestinians, grant them asylum and offer them citizenship. No return. His argument is "problem sorted." Gaza can be redeveloped.
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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| No other refugees are accommodated pending a durable solution, which is normally an offer of citizenship in the country they have become settled in. |
Sometimes.
| Descendents will then become nationals of that country. |
Sometimes.
| So a Syrian would, say, flee Assad to Germany, be offered asylum, then be granted German nationality, any new descendents become German etc. So at that point they cease to be a refugee family, irrespective of not being in Syria. They would no longer be counted or supported by United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees, they are German. |
One would think so. Though Germany's second largest party has just announced German nationals of refugee origin may be sent 'home'.
| Palestinian fathers since 1949 have been passing on their refugee status to their children, that is one reason why the Palestinian refugee numbers are always growing. I think it's 2-3 million getting services from UNRWA, that is why the UNRWA budget exceeds the totals for all other refugees worldwide, because they get the children, and then children of children, all waiting to return. These Palestinians are not becoming nationals of other countries. That is why the UNRWA budget is large and always growing, even when there was no Israel Palestinian fighting. They in effect need to support the growing Palestinian population who are still waiting to return. |
I do not entirely agree. The Palestinians are unique (write in if not) because they are living immediately adjacent to their homeland in, as it were, their homeland. What status are their children other than refugees? If there is an Israel/Palestine agreement, then (and only then) would all of them cease to be refugees at a stroke.
| Trump is in effect saying that Egypt and Jordan should take in the Palestinians, grant them asylum and offer them citizenship. No return. His argument is "problem sorted." Gaza can be redeveloped. |
Any refugee who goes to and settles in a third country ceases to be a refugee. It is a matter of indifference--apart from holiday plans--what happens in his or her place of origin. Compare and contrast ex-Sudeten German families. Apparently they buy holiday homes in droves throughout the Czech Sudetenland but wouldn't want to live there for love or money.
It's worth pointing out that relocating people to more salubrious places doesn't solve the problem. People are not attached to their homeland because it's nice but because they live in social networks built up over many years. These would be broken even if they were moved to suites in the Savoy Hotel.
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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A most extraordinary offering on the World Service. It recounted with obvious relish and approval how an eighty-year-old ex-Stasi operative has just been given ten years for murder. This is what happened.
A Pole goes into the Polish embassy in East Berlin carrying a bag with wires sticking out of it. He claims it is a bomb and threatens to blow up the embassy unless he's allowed to cross into West Berlin. He's escorted to a railway tunnel linking the two sectors and is allowed to start 'walking to freedom'. Then the aforementioned Stasi operative shoots him dead. So the Stasi bloke was
1. Obeying a lawful order from his superiors
2. Hundreds of people were shot trying to cross the Wall
3. He is doing it in such a way that, if the bag was a bomb, only the carrier would get hurt
4. He might, for all they knew, blow up a West German station by accident. I wonder how the West Germans would have reacted to that.
5.. Even if you decide all this amounts to a crime it certainly isn't murder.
I wouldn't have given the dude a medal but I wouldn't have given him ten years either. I find this totally preposterous. Not least of the BBC.
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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Many moons ago Wiley posted on how ISI had orchestrated 9/11, recently a newer theory has started to gain ground that the operation was covertly organised by Qatar.
What is not disputed is that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed (KSM) was residing in Qatar during the mid-1990s where he worked for the Ministry of Electricity and Water. The US at the time were closing in on KSM for planning terorist activities, notably the Bojinka plot.
| The Bojinka plot (Arabic: بوجينكا; Tagalog: Proyektong Bojinka) was a large-scale, three-phase terrorist attack planned by Ramzi Yousef and Khalid Sheikh Mohammed for January 1995. They planned to assassinate Pope John Paul II; blow up 11 airliners in flight from Asia to the United States, with the goal of killing approximately 4,000 passengers and shutting down air travel around the world; and crash a plane into the headquarters of the United States Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) in Langley, Virginia.[1][2] |
At this stage KSM (some think warned by Qatar) headed off to Afghanistan, under the protection of the Taliban . The Taliban was founded by the ISI. (that is, if you believe Wiley, to be clear, you peviously have not.)
For those that don't know, Qatar doesn't just host the offices of Hamas, but also hosted the Taliban political office for eight years, and acts as a respected mediator in talks betwenn the US and Taliban.
What seems to be the case is that after KSM left he was supported logistically by the ISI (Omar Sheikh wired, on the instructions of General Mahmoud Ahmed, the then head of Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence $100,000 before the 9/11 attacks to Mohammed Atta), whilst Qatar later focussed its role on "mediation", enabling it to gain power in the eyes of world powers and international organizations as a helful trusted partner.
Is Qatar playing a double game?
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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I can't get my head round it at all--partly because I can never remember who's who in the Gulf so my brain does not automatically sort things out for me in nice easy strings.
As Al-Jazeera is Qatar and I watch Al-Jazeera all the time with approval (even forgiving the soppy leftist cant) I automatically take Qatar's side. Hence the UAE and Saudi Arabia are the baddies. [I had to check that I'd got Qatar and the UAE the right way round on Wiki. Again.] But Iran and the Taliban are baddies even though I support them against Israel and America.
But if anyone is also playing a double game I'll be completely lost. I'm already having second thoughts about Israel on the grounds it would certainly benefit the world felicific calculus if they took over Gaza and the West bank and pacified them. I'm going to have to completely rethink my idea of the part evil plays in the wider scheme of things.
Oh God, if the felicific calculus has to go I'm going to be loster than lost.
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Grant
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Qatar also is home to the largest US military base in the Middle East. Perhaps the US planned it.
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Boreades
In: finity and beyond
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| Mick Harper wrote: | I can't get my head round it at all ...
... Oh God, if the felicific calculus has to go I'm going to be loster than lost. |
Are you suffering from Carbon Monoxide withdrawal symptoms?
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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| Grant wrote: | | Qatar also is home to the largest US military base in the Middle East. Perhaps the US planned it. |
This is important. Both the US and Israel (unlike various Arab States who had previously complained about Qatar's support for terrorism) believed that Qatar and Hamas were onside. Bibi was happy for Qatar to build the promenade, the towers, the hospital and so on in Gaza. Gaza was developing rapidly because Bibi was playing divide and rule with Fatah and Hamas. Whilst the Palestinians were split they would be unable to achieve a single homeland. Bibi must have known they were building tunnels using Qatari cement, he simply did not think that the Hamas leadership who were becoming very rich and living lives of luxury (many in Qatar) would ever launch a serious attack (as opposed to the Hamas military groups launching occasional rocket attacks and then hiding in their tunnels when Israel bombed in retaliation). Israel calls these limited operations "mowing the lawn".
This is the background to the security failiure.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cyvee8vr7l1o
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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| "The driver of the car was German." Channel 4 News |
This was the latest car-drives-into-crowd incident--in Mannheim, Germany. There has been a spate of them, this was the second one in Mannheim alone. What can you tell from the phraseology? Quite a lot. Not just about the incident, not just about the general terrorist picture in Germany, but about the wider problem of careful ignoral in the MSM.
Now I may turn out to be quite wrong, but my initial reaction was, "Why didn't they say 'The driver of the car, Karl-Ernst Schmidt, was German." Because that would have made no sense. Of course he was German. With a name like that driving a car in Mannheim, what nationality could he be? If they are at pains to mention he was German, we can be reasonably sure his name was Mohammed bin Ahmed (or whatever). We can also be reasonably sure he is not a recent migrant but someone settled long enough in Germany to have been given citizenship.
This is more rather than less serious since it means that it is not just recent migrants that are disaffected to the point of terrorism but gastarbeiters (or their equivalent) of which Germany is very full. And the All for Deutschland party will continue to grow because the MSM continues in its policy of trying to massage the news when everyone will find out the truth anyway but correctly conclude that the 'high-ups' are keeping it all to themselves so there's nothing to do but sweep the lot away.
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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US and Israel are looking to resettle Palestinians uprooted from Gaza under the Trump plan, ie turning the war-torn strip into the “Riviera of the Middle East.”
According to AP, Officials stated that Sudan rejected the offer, while Somalia and Somaliland said they weren't aware of any offer.
So I think it is fair to surmmise that, despite huge numbers of folks being surpportive in the sense of dressing up and marching, no government is actually keen to rehouse Palestinians.
Wiley's prediction is that these folks are all going to live in tented refugee camps in south Gaza whereas North Gaza will, for the forseeable, become a deserted buffer Zone. That is unless the Palestinians within Gaza finally work out that Hamas is not their friend, thinking no redevelopment will ever take place without either the Palestinians moving or Hamas giving up their weapons, which (ahem) they obviously won't.
This sounds bleak but eventually within this massive tented camp will start springing up cheap prefabricated modular homes, and on this basis a new low level city will be built. It just won't be the old towers and the tunnels of concrete. It certainly won't be the Riviera, but it will eventually become the largest refugee camp/city in the world based on cheap low-level modular housing, I don't think they have an alternative.
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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I think Putin's missing a trick if he spins out the will he/won't he agree to a ceasefire just to get Ukraine out of Kursk. (If he is spinning it out because he intends to refuse a ceasefire, period, we're in a whole new ballgame.)
At the moment, the fact that Ukraine is in Kursk ensures the peace negotiations will have to include a territory swap. If they aren't, a what-we-have-we-hold is not only possible, it is likely. That is not what Russia wants. It wants the Crimea Canal. And it doesn't hold that.
But... if they all have to sit down for a Monopoly session swapping title deeds with Trump glowering from above (but not really comprehending the issues) then he is quite likely to enforce--if it is the only saviour of the talks--the Russians having Kherson while giving up some tuppeny-ha'ppeny bit of Donetsk.
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Boreades
In: finity and beyond
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| Mick Harper wrote: | | At the moment, the fact that Ukraine is in Kursk ensures the peace negotiations will have to include a territory swap. |
At the moment you wrote that, that was correct. But not for much longer.
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Boreades
In: finity and beyond
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While many people are distracted by all the media talk about possible Ukraine peace talks, the "Forever Wars" continue elsewhere.
| The US launched what it called a "decisive and powerful" wave of air strikes on Houthi targets on Saturday as part of efforts to stop Houthi attacks on shipping in the Red Sea. |
This is nothing new.
| US National Security Advisor Michael Waltz told ABC News that Saturday's strikes "targeted multiple Houthi leaders and took them out". He told Fox News: "We just hit them with overwhelming force and put Iran on notice that enough is enough." US Defence Secretary Pete Hegseth vowed an "unrelenting" missile campaign until the Houthi attacks stop. |
Lots of ritual chest-beating.
| The Houthis said it would continue to target Red Sea shipping until Israel lifted its blockade of Gaza, and that its forces would respond to the strikes. The Iranian-backed rebel group, which considers Israel its enemy, controls Sanaa and the north-west of Yemen |
And some typical Trump, soundbite strategy.
| Announcing Saturday's strikes, Trump said "we will use overwhelming lethal force until we have achieved our objective". |
But what is the objective?
Lest we forget, others have tried this before, and failed. This was Saudi Arabia equipped with the best of UK and US weapons (including F15 and Tornado aircraft), and well trained by the UK & US.
| Neighbouring Saudi Arabia feared the Houthis would take over Yemen and make it a satellite of its rival, Iran. It formed a coalition of Arab countries that intervened in the war. But years of air strikes and ground fighting have not dislodged the Houthis from most of the territory they seized. |
It remains unclear how the tactics currently being used are any different from those used by Saudi Arabia without success. But this does appears to be a cornerstone of Trump support for Israel.
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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| Borry wrote: | At the moment, the fact that Ukraine is in Kursk ensures the peace negotiations will have to include a territory swap.
At the moment you wrote that, that was correct. But not for much longer. |
Don't be too sure. It is open to Ukraine to pile resources in to keep a sliver, and a sliver is all they need. I'm not saying they will. I'm not saying they can.
| The US launched what it called a "decisive and powerful" wave of air strikes on Houthi targets on Saturday as part of efforts to stop Houthi attacks on shipping in the Red Sea. |
I couldn't help noticing the UK no longer features. I can't believe this is the result of wisdom dawning so it is probably logistical.
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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Why does everyone keep saying
| "While President Putin hasn't agreed to a full ceasefire, he has agreed to..." |
He hasn't agreed to any ceasefire, period. Not attacking energy infrastructure is nothing to do with any ceasefire. It is military calculation based on
* Ukraine just having made a very successful drone attack on Russian oil plants
* eighty per cent of Ukraine's energy infrastructure already having being damaged and
* winter being over, there's not much point anyway.
But just imagine the difference if the MMS had said (and Trump had recognised) the actual position
| Putin nixes Trump's ceasefire! Read all about it! |
They talked for an hour and half (two and a half, according to some reports) so it is not as if was some kind of afterthought. Zelensky can hardly agree to it in return for the real concessions Putin is asking of him, so I fear the next step will be
| Trump berates warmongering Ukraine. All American intelligence, hardware and financial assistance to be ended. Again. | |
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