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Did The Dark Ages Exist? (NEW CONCEPTS)
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Ishmael


In: Toronto
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Hatty wrote:
I thought it was the story of King Richard and King John...


Yes! Exactly. It is the same story. In fact, we will see in a moment that the parallels are even greater than you imagine.

...with some added flourishes. But Excalibur, Arthur's sword, is a must-have element of ballads and romances of chivalry.


I suspect Mark Twain added the bit about Excalibur.

Twain could have been in England or France but such a glorious mish-mash of myth makes me think he most likely heard it in Germany.


It was in fact in Italy that he heard the tale. However, the point of my post is that he did not hear it in Britain. It is a duplicate history/legend mirroring all of the main components of the Prince John/Richard Lionheart story.

Including Robin Hood.

Did you catch that?
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Ishmael


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Wile E. Coyote wrote:
Wandering King leaves home, to fight battles abroad, returns to find kingdom in a pickle, goes undercover, saves family, from evil suitors... ...Odyssey?


Yes. The Odyssey. Absolutely. In fact, what I love about this story is how it affords a link between the Prince John/Richard Lionheart Legend, Homer's Odyssey, and the legend of Robin Hood. In fact, with this story, we can finally identify who Robin Hood is.

Robin Hood is the lost King in disguise.

Robin Hood is King Richard.

In fact, this element was part of many versions of the Robin Hood legend, where Robin is said to be a wealthy lord who has had his lands usurped from him. Those lands are downgraded to some minor duchy in the standard tales -- but this legend makes it clear that Robin, as the hidden tormentor of his evil brother, is the King himself returned but in waiting.

Robin Hood in the traditional tale is the defender of justice in the absence of the King. He fights on awaiting the King's ultimate return, which will occur at the tale's climax.

But Robin Hood is originally not waiting for the King to return at all. Robin Hood is the true King present in the world, waiting to reveal himself. He will one day take back what is rightfully his own.

Including the Queen, "Maid Marian."

Which links him with Odysseus who returns to his lost Kingdom from the Great War wearing a disguise (and wielding a bow no less!); there to reclaim the honour of his Queen, before she is forced to marry one of her suitors.

Robin Hood = Odysseus = King Richard the Lionheart.
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Ishmael


In: Toronto
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So we now have every indication that Prince John and King Richard -- twin pillars of British "history" -- are no less mythical entities than is Robin Hood. Like Walter Scott, whose novels afforded characters of legend an historical context, British Historians appear to have inserted within their national history (itself likely not British in inspiration) at least two figures of myth: Richard Lionheart and his brother, John.

But if there is no King John....

....then who is responsible for the Magna Carta?
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Ishmael


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And then what are we to make of this?

A medieval market town has discovered it owns an original version of the Magna Carta

At the heart of the confusion about Faversham's Magna Carta is that it was issued by Edward I in 1300, not by King John who was forced by his barons to agree to Magna Carta on June 15, 1215.

Now just the other day, I was researching Robin Hood. By coincidence I learned that the earliest mention of Robin Hood has his nemesis being King "Edward" and not King John.
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Ishmael


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Taking a step away from the promised Mark Twain material....

I would like to offer you a riddle.

  • I am one of the longest navigable rivers in the world.
  • I flow almost directly along a north-south line of longitude.
  • My head waters, instead of flowing directly to the nearest, large body of water, cross half a continent to empty into a distant sea
  • I flood annually and thus irrigate my river-banks, making the entire region one of the most fertile places on the continent.
  • I terminate in a massive, fertile delta.
  • The people who rule my waters own slaves.
  • I am divided politically, and almost evenly, north and south, into an upper and lower portion.
  • The people who live along my banks are Africans.

What is my name?
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Mick Harper
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In: London
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Mississippi-Missouri
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Mick Harper
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Remove the answer to encourager les autres.
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Hatty
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In: Berkshire
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The Nile.
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Ishmael


In: Toronto
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Of course both answers are correct. The Nile and the Mississippi (and the Mississippi-Missouri).

Many years ago, one of the first things I ever read from Mick Harper (outside of THOBR) was an essay he wrote pointing out the eerie resemblances between the Nile and the rivers of Mesopotamia. You can read that essay for yourselves.

In that essay, he accused me (that is, all readers of Graham Hancock's books) of lacking ambition. We failed to see the enormity of the strange goings on in the ancient world -- humbled by too much respect for the authority of inherited wisdom. In that essay, Harper brazenly suggested the the Nile (and the Tigress and Euphrates) had been artificially constructed to follow the paths they took.

In light of the remarkable parallels between the Nile and the Mississippi detailed above, to whatever degree we grant the artificiality of the Nile, surely we must to that same degree grant artificiality to the Mississippi river.

And if we grant that a North American river was constructed by some great feat of human engineering... well then -- there goes your entire conception of world history and the settling of North America by Europeans. Something much bigger is going on.

And something much bigger than that is likely going on too, if we accede to these givens. For if the Tigress, Euphrates, Nile and Mississippi are all linked and supposed artificial, then we really have no excuse for excepting any of the world's great river systems as natural in origin. The Amazon, the Congo, the Indus, the Ganges, and the Yangtze -- these must be presumed of artificial origin. There can be no special cases (unless proven otherwise). We must conclude that nature does not, in fact, create natural rivers on such a massive scale.

Any who would entertain this thought must place all conventional history aside.
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Ishmael


In: Toronto
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Now here's a river that just might prove very important -- and until 20 minutes ago, I had never heard of it. It's called the Amur River and it flows out of Mongolia.

Take a look at the map. You may be amazed to learn (as I was) that this entire river system (including tributaries) is navigable. It's also home to the largest fresh-water fish in the world. Followers of the domestication threads on this site will note that the fish in question is highly endangered (having been hunted to near-extinction).

It is the location of the Amur that draws my attention. I initially went looking where it flows hoping not to find it -- that is, I hoped that the area above China would lack a giant river and thus boost my hypothesis that mega-rivers do not naturally occur. However, what I have found neither helps nor hinders that case.

But if the Amur river is artificial too, then it may be key to understanding the origin of the Tartars and the Cro-Magnon peoples.

Might this place be the true cradle of civilization?
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Ishmael


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Incidentally, the name "Amur" intrigues me.

Of course, it looks like, "Amour" -- that is, "love". But I have another thought too.

It is a small point of Trivia that "ancient" Romans held that Rome had a "secret name." Legend had it that speaking the "secret name" would bring about the downfall of the city -- so saying this name aloud was supposedly taboo (I presume then the secret name was learned via the written word -- or perhaps printed word).

For reasons that yet remain unknown to me, it is said that this "secret name" for Rome was simply the word Rome spelled in reverse (from right-to-left). Romans spelled the word Rome as "Roma" so, inverted, it reads "Amor."

It is no large thing to alter an "o" to a "u."
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Hatty
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Ishmael wrote:
Now here's a river that just might prove very important -- and until 20 minutes ago, I had never heard of it. It's called the Amur River and it flows out of Mongolia.

From the map it looks as if no river apart from the Amur reaches the sea. Is this the case? There may be a connection between managed water supply and grassland. [Interestingly in England the purest water courses are chalk streams found on the downs, which is also horse-country]
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Ishmael


In: Toronto
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Hatty wrote:
From the map it looks as if no river apart from the Amur reaches the sea. Is this the case?


I am looking at the same map as you. That's what I see.

Lucky then that there's that opening in the mountains or the whole area would just be one big inland sea I suppose. And yet it's funny how the lake is interrupted by no "great lakes". Just one long meandering snake.
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Chad


In: Ramsbottom
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Ishmael wrote:
Lucky then that there's that opening in the mountains or the whole area would just be one big inland sea I suppose.

Here's an interesting map of the Amur Basin topography.

It's difficult to believe (given the topography) that the entire area bounded by the blue dashed line, can all drain into the sea via just one huge river.

It looks to me as if several adjacent basins have been engineered to deliver all their catchment into the lower Amur valley. This is something that's not unknown in modern hydro-engineering (and the Romans dabbled in it) but not on this scale.
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Tilo Rebar


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Ishmael wrote:
Might this place be the true cradle of civilization?

We'll never be able to prove if it was the cradle of civilisation as this area was heavily glaciated during the depths of the ice age. Glaciers leave little archaeology behind as they scour the earth on their journey to the sea, although maybe some clues could remain in the depths of caves or on the tallest mountains.

A tantalising glimpse of an early advanced trading civilisation can be seen through the mists of time here...

Obsidian provenance for prehistoric complexes in the Amur River basin (Russian Far East)

http://www.researchgate.net/publication/236850172_Obsidian_provenance_
for_prehistoric_complexes_in_the_Amur_River_basin_%28Russian_Far_East%29
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