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Ishmael
In: Toronto
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| Donmillion wrote: | | (Still in fey mood--sorry, Ishmael! But if the Phoenician place-name first appears in the 17th Century, replacing a Cornish name that's been in use for 400 to 600 years and which makes absolute sense historically, what else are we to conclude?) |
Just remember who had the last laugh the last time you were flippantly dismissive.
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Margha=Martha=Market
Mother zone= Marazion
All looks the same.
I reckon it could be something worth thinking about.?
Sorry must confess I didn't use 5 search engines, as I sort of figured it out myself.
Ok the absence of Marthas is now explained, she is hidden in the words margha and market? She tames animals for market?
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Hatty
Site Admin
In: Berkshire
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There were 132 variations of Marazion last time I looked. Not enough is known about early Cornish language, before Henry VII onwards, to know what it was called originally but the number of versions is so large and varied it sounds quite the international hub of Cornwall.
All that is known for sure is that the town was trading long before its existence was validated by a charter for a market, on a Thursday or any other day.
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Donmillion
In: Acton, Middlesex
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Now that's very interesting, Hatty. Where do you get that information from?--The "for sure" part about Marazion trading long before there was a charter? Anything to do with Wikipedia's note about "remains of an anicent bronze furnace" near the town?
Is Marazion in Domesday? If not, the chances that it existed in any significant sense in 1088 are small.
Round about 1190 (I haven't been able to pin down the date), Earl Robert of Cornwall issued a charter for the monks of St Michael's to conduct a Parvum Forum, a "Small Market", on the mainland, and subsequently a charter for a Jovis Parvum, "Thusday Market".
A later charter of c. 1250, issued by Richard I of Cornwall, "King of the Romans", provides that the three fairs held by the priors of St Michael's Mount on land not their own at Marhasbighan ("Small Market"), should in future be held on their own land at Marhasȝon (Marghas-De-Yown, "Market [on] Thursday").
Isn't that a bit of a coincidence, name-wise? And note: The town's own official history identifies Richard's charter as "the oldest record in which [Marazion] is named," confirming, I think, that the unsubstantiated Wikipedia claim about Domesday is nonsense.
I'd still be interested (Mick, Hatty, anyone) in the etymology that makes Ma-Rahzh-un (Marazion, in its modern form) a Phoenician word.
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Hatty
Site Admin
In: Berkshire
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| nemesis8 wrote: | | Margha=Martha=Market |
Of course the great tin-traders in history were the Chaldeans, from the Land of Tin. Martha in the Bible is the anointer, who applies myrrh, which may point to her being a Magi or a trader in precious herbs (tarragon/Tarasque?). Myrrh was just the sort of high value, low portage item Megalithic traders would carry.
Come to think of it, there was a Persian Martha who was martyred by being thrown into a well (p'raps 'Pussy in the well' being 'Persian in the well' is too outlandish but you never know what with them Saracen stones being giants)
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Chad
In: Ramsbottom
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| Don wrote: | | Marhasbighan ("Small Market") |
Are you sure?... Sounds more like a big un to me.
Oh... and...
I'd be interested (Don) in the etymology that makes Ma-Rahzh-un (your emphasis don't forget) = Market on Thursday.
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Chad
In: Ramsbottom
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| Don wrote: | | I'd still be interested (Mick, Hatty, anyone) in the etymology that makes Ma-Rahzh-un (Marazion, in its modern form) a Phoenician word. |
Marazion = Mikher-zion = Market-Capital or even Market-sign (Hebrew/Phoenician).
{The original meaning of zion was: waymarker... so would be cognate with sign.}
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| Chad wrote: | | Don wrote: | | Marhasbighan ("Small Market") |
Are you sure?... Sounds more like a big un to me.
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The idea is it's a win, vane, vaughan, bighan word. When added to a name means younger, hence small. Surprised you didn't spot that, it's blinking obvious. Try to keep up.....
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Chad
In: Ramsbottom
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Gerrawaywiya.
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Chad
In: Ramsbottom
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So Marazion (Mikher-zion) is the Market by the Waymarker... and St. Michael's Mount would have been a significant waymarker.
Similarly, Mount Zion and (probably) Mount Sinai were also significant waymarkers.
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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Ishmael
In: Toronto
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| Chad wrote: | | Similarly, Mount Zion and (probably) Mount Sinai were also significant waymarkers. |
Navels of the Earth.
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I have to say Hats, that as much as I have fallen in love with Martha (now comes a guess)...she was a bit of a slut for the powers that be? (her sister was more honourable)
Hence her festival days were restricted?
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Donmillion
In: Acton, Middlesex
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| Hatty wrote: | | Of course the great tin-traders in history were the Chaldeans, from the Land of Tin. |
Where do you think the Chaldaeans (to give the more nearly correct pre-American spelling) came from, Hatty, if "from" anywhere? It may be that, like me, you think they never actually moved. However, you seem to be equating them with the Phoenicians of Cadiz (who monopolised the tin trade in early classical times), which I don't think is correct.
I suspect you're referring to eastern Anatolia; but if so, Anatolian bronze (the earliest bronze, I think) was of inferior quality to the later British bronze because, quite simply, there's not a lot of tin there. In contrast, Britain is widely believed to be the place known to Herodotus, Strabo, and so forth, as "The Land of Tin", the Cassiterides (Greek kassiteros, "tin"). A better candidate, though, would be the islands of the Loire estuary before it silted up in Roman times. I don't believe there's any evidence that the Phoenicians were ever in Britain (which is not the same as I won't believe it if it's produced).
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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Velikovsky equates the Chaldean-Babylonians with the Hittites and it is difficult sorting things out, given the dating hiatus. The position in the book, though it is not overtly stated, is that the Chaldeans are the people who broke the Bronze Monopoly of the Megalithics and launched the Iron Age. (As well as the Chaldeans.)
It is not stated because we are trying to get away with various arguments that do not really bear the light of day. Not (only) because of our own invincible ignorance but because not enough is known.
However, things get complicated later when it appears that the Chaldeans become latter-day Megalithics!
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