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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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I suppose Spandau Ballet would be considered part of the canon of modern popular music so I was startled to listen in to a discussion which repeatedly and jocularly pointed out they had nothing to do with ballet. Since the name refers to people being hanged in a Berlin prison, I am not overly surprised. Though for a British rock band to adopt such a grisly name, I find to be even more surprising.
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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There is a canon of modern pseudo-history books going back, I suppose, to Ignatius L. Donnelly's Atlantis: The Antediluvian World. This post on medium popped up
which I opened eagerly hoping one of mine might have scraped in. Fat chance of course, but these were the ones the geezer did include (with my comments)
1421: The Year China Discovered America by Gavin Menzies
I was quite surprised at this. I haven't read it but I thought it was an account of a little known but real Chinese expedition.
The Five Negro Presidents: Based on What White People Said They Were by J.A. Rogers
This I have to admit is a new one on me but I wouldn't be surprised at what skeletons US presidents might be hiding in their closets.
Chariots of the Gods? By Erich Von Daniken
The grandaddy of them all. I found it rather exhilarating (and quite useful in parts) though I acknowledge its overall shortcomings. Which are not nearly as short as his excitable critics would have us believe.
Fingerprints of the Gods: The Evidence of Earth’s Lost Civilization by Graham Hancock
I don't think this should be in there at all. Hancock is an entirely respectable researcher in my book (his website gave a great boost to one of mine) even though his quest for more, and more exciting, things may have led him to be not an entirely respectable researcher.
Holy Blood, Holy Grail by Michael Baigent, Richard Leigh, and Henry Lincoln
The grandmammy of them all. Again, this is very sober research. It is true that it is largely misconceived -- because deliberately misled -- but one of my all time faves.
Feel free to lob in your own choices as to which should be in the canon starting with Velikovsky.
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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| The bands you have to see live before you die Guardian Saturday Review |
Taylor Swift
Beyoncé
Bruce Springsteen
Iron Maiden
Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds
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Wasn't it?
"The bands you have to see live before they die"
Well I suppose Taylor might have a few years.....
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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| Mick Harper wrote: | | I suppose Spandau Ballet would be considered part of the canon of modern popular music so I was startled to listen in to a discussion which repeatedly and jocularly pointed out they had nothing to do with ballet. Since the name refers to people being hanged in a Berlin prison, I am not overly surprised. Though for a British rock band to adopt such a grisly name, I find to be even more surprising. |
With the exception of "True" I can't see any of their records standing the Test of Time, love em or hate em. Wiley's guess is that the band that will defo feature on both the Pop Music Module and also within the late 1900s Culture Curricullum are the Bee Gees. They produced pop music that zillions wanted to both listen and dance to, and zillions went to see the incredibly dark film, because of their soundtrack. No wonder many folks were envious.
Difficult not to like the incredible bass on Jive Talkin', until you know it's the Bee Gees.
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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I think this is a misunderstanding of 'canon' when applied to popular (as opposed to classical) music. Prog rock, for example, is widely derided now but is part of the canon. The Bay City Rollers may not be listened to much now but they are part of the canon. At least the British canon. That's something else to bear in mind, the classical canon does not vary by nation, though there is a sub-canon of British classical music.
I have no personal knowledge of any Spandau Ballet records, and I do not know whether they are listened to much today, but they get mentioned too often as an influential band not to be right in there. The Bee-Gees, curiously, as a band would not be though some of their records would. 'Jive talking' for instance is just their contribution to 'disco' but would be in the canon as somewhat 'definitive'. Ditto, say, Abba.
Let Gerry and the Pacemakers be your benchmark!
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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| Mick Harper wrote: | | I think this is a misunderstanding of 'canon' when applied to popular (as opposed to classical) music. |
Prog rock, for example, is widely derided now but is part of the canon. The Bay City Rollers may not be listened to much now but they are part of the canon.
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I suspect you are in danger of mentally dividing your Harpoid canon into inclusive opposites, ie thinking man's music and, well, err, Bay City Rollers fans.....
Maybe you are on trend, just wanting to show diversity?
Prog Rock has actually much more in common with a Jazz or Classical canon than Pop.
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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| I suspect you are in danger of mentally dividing your Harpoid canon into inclusive opposites, ie thinking man's music and, well, err, Bay City Rollers fans..... |
I am well aware I am groping towards a definition with, so far, limited success.
| Maybe you are on trend, just wanting to show diversity? |
I probably was but I ought not to have been. Both being 'on trend' and 'wanting to show diversity' are for squares not for canoneers.
| Prog Rock has actually much more in common with a Jazz or Classical canon than Pop. |
This at least I can roundly condemn. Prog Rock might have affinities with anything but it is unquestionably 'pop' music so requires placing in its canon. Look at it the other way: would Prog Rock even get considered when compiling the canon of either Jazz or Classical music?
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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The only Progressive Rock Band that I can actually think of as producing a genuine Pop Song is Pink Floyd.
Ex Prog Rockers like Gabriel and Collins had to leave to start producing great Pop Songs.
Still I will gracefully concede as " Another Brick In The Wall (Part Two) " it's undeniably a pop song, it has a brilliant funky disco beat, punk alienation lyrics and..... a school choir.....
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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| brilliant funky disco beat, punk alienation lyrics |
You see, that's where you're going wrong. You have to divorce entirely your own subjective feelings about candidates for the canon and rely entirely on secondary evidence. That's why I'm so brilliant at this, I am a complete philistine who doesn't allow the finer things, art of any kind, into the house. It is a shrine to the pure intellect. ("Yes, Mick, what did happen to your intellect? Oh, you replaced it with a better one. I suspected as much.")
Pink Floyd, who I saw at the Roundhouse before they were 'prog rock' which was only coined later when everybody was a punk, together with one of the first British 'light shows' -- blobs of colour oozing across a back projection cloth -- qualify on various grounds in the 'bands' section (that I have just invented). Another Brick in the Road qualifies in the album (concept) section. After that I trail off into 'There's never any tunes like when I were a lad' territory.
PS 'We don't need no education' is considered anthemic by AE's.
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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WHAM! 2023 12 Documentary 1h 32m Captivating • Nostalgic • Music Documentary
Through archival interviews and footage, George Michael and Andrew Ridgeley
relive the arc of their Wham! career, from 70s best buds to 80s pop icons. |
Does a Netflix documentary get you into the canon?
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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"What short word denotes the strictest form of contrapuntal imitation?
In another sense it might indicate an accepted body of work or the
recognised genuine works of an author."
"Omnibus?"
"No, canon."
University Challenge |
... dud dud dudetty dud dud du-ur-rd. Ah, the canon of national tunes...
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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My university was asked to select its four people for University Challenge. Each hall of residence (twenty-odd) was instructed to run its own heats. I was middle of the pack in ours. Do you think this stops me saying, "Yes, I remember when I was on University Challenge..'? No conferring.
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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Wiley would be ideal for Taskmaster but they only invite ex Oxbridge comedic types. They don't want real inventors.
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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Spot the Odd Man Out Competition
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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Listening to this wondrously epic two-hour Radio 2 programme Celebrating the Rolling Stones at 60, I got to musing what the Rolling Stones thought of the Beatles and vice versa (and vis à vis of course). This led me to identifying the unquestionable heads of state
Elvis Presley
Bob Dylan
The Beatles
The Rolling Stones |
There's no-one else that qualifies, but none of these could be left off. They are all GOATs but of what is harder to say.
Fun fact: Andrew Loog Oldham had a hard job persuading Mick and Keith to write songs 'like the Beatles' and when they finally did they were offered by Oldham to other people but they were always duds. Until As Tears Go By was given to Marianne Faithfull. After that they never looked back.
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