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All Things Roman (History)
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Wile E. Coyote


In: Arizona
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Not sure. The Stanegate links a number of Roman forts, and fortlets in a chaotic way so it's presumably evolutionary (at the start) rather than planned. They (who?) then try to link the forts/fortlets. Only then do they think about a straight direct linear road/wall etc.

Of course that comes backs to Wiley's circular/linear model. Which is of course why I have just thought about it. It does lead to the question why didn't I think about it earlier?

It's the forts first, conceived controlling circular territory.....

As the number of forts expand they come up with the idea to start filling in the gaps with fortlets.

They then join the dots.

That is why the ends west/east of Stanegate no longer exist? They never did. It never was a East/West model. The paradigm changed. The wall reflects a change in thinking/planning.
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Hatty
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In: Berkshire
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If the forts came first and were subsequently linked up by a road, it may be they weren't forts to start with. They could have been farms, and may even have been informally connected, which might account for the non-straight alignment of the later road. Making use of existing foundations or buildings is generally simpler than starting from scratch.
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Mick Harper
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In: London
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Why farms? Why not what you find along any road? Ostleries, police pull-ins, megalith-marts, topless truck-stops, Waitrose.
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Wile E. Coyote


In: Arizona
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If the forts came first and were subsequently linked up by a road, it may be they weren't forts to start with. They could have been farms, and may even have been informally connected, which might account for the non-straight alignment of the later road. Making use of existing foundations or buildings is generally simpler than starting from scratch.


Why farms? Why not what you find along any road? Ostleries, police pull-ins, megalith-marts, topless truck-stops, Waitrose.


Interesting....

There is some ortho speculation about Roman lead/silver mining. (gold ?)


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mining_in_Roman_Britain

Maybe this is all about the exploitation and transport of minerals.

It has a feel of a rush, then a more planned approach, then a pull out ?
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Wile E. Coyote


In: Arizona
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If you want to keep an eye on something of value surely straight is the way to go? Therefore you plan using aligned towers.
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Wile E. Coyote


In: Arizona
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The Rook or Castle moves in a straight long line.
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Wile E. Coyote


In: Arizona
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Actually the saying should be not “As the Crow Flies” but as the rook flies because of the way in which they fly in a straight line, especially to and from rookeries.

cf crows nest =rookery
cf scarecrow. = scare rook
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Hatty
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In: Berkshire
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I don't buy this gate = road anyway unless someone can provide me with a Geordie etyymology. I prefer gate = gate. What about the road being the Gate to Stane (i.e. Ireland or Scandinavia).

Stanegate could be referring to Stainton or Stainton West as it seems to be called, just north-west of Carlisle 'above the present floodplain of the River Eden'

Evidence of prehistoric settlement and 'lithics' was found here when a new bridge and road (!) were being built
The precise significance of the linear and rectilinear features visible on the aerial photographs is not known; some have the appearance of rectangular ditched enclosures, whilst others may be the remains of trackways and field systems. Such remains would not be out of place in a prehistoric or Romano-British context, and are likely to have been associated with a small rural settlement or farmstead, although a later date for some or all of these features cannot be ruled out.

The Megalithic Portal spouts a whole load of stuff about hunter-gatherers and votive offerings but clearly a lot of activity was going on and it seems to have been in use throughout the Neolithic and Bronze Age, anyway for many centuries.

Whether there was a road as such isn't clear but presumably even 'hunter-gatherers' create routes. They've concluded there were cultivated areas and 'monuments', though perhaps animal enclosures rather than farms.

Whilst no direct evidence for prehistoric occupation was known from the line of the road itself prior to this project, aerial photography of the area west and north of Stainton, on the north side of the River Eden, has revealed a quite extensive complex of rectilinear and curvilinear cropmarks, including a number of apparently circular and semi-circular features.

These can neither be dated nor characterised with certainty on photographic evidence alone, but are likely to be of prehistoric date, and may represent the remains of ploughed-out burial mounds (barrows) or ceremonial monuments such as henges or hengelike (hengiform) enclosures; possible examples of the latter are known from aerial photography on the Cumbrian coast and discoveries elsewhere in the North West suggest this class of monument may be more widespread than previously believed
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Mick Harper
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In: London
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Pretty good but if Stainton = Stanegate then we still need to know what or where this Stain that Stanegate was the gate for. Remember Margate (sea) and Ramsgate (sheep)? Though we do speak of 'the Dover Road' so I suppose Stainton might just be Stainton.

the area west and north of Stainton, on the north side of the River Eden

I seem to remember this whole area was flooded recently (with the loss of some important biscuit or other) but I don't know whether ancient floods were the same as ours or whether they are particularly significant when siting roads, ports etc.
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Wile E. Coyote


In: Arizona
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It could be stone but what about stand?

A gate is an exit or entrance to a gathering.

Stand gather.

Standing together...
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Wile E. Coyote


In: Arizona
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If Stanegate did become the medieval Carelgate (err) road.

That would be a ring/circle word.

Currus a place to keep a chariot.

Think of corral.

Gather together and confine (a group of people or things).


See the way I did that. Two inferences and I have a sound case.

Stand together Corral together.
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Mick Harper
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In: London
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I think you must be on the same tablets I am.
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Wile E. Coyote


In: Arizona
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So we have a mystery: the north is according to history attacked and conquered by a number of governors/generals of which we forget about all other than Agricola (thanks, Tacitus)

We have Frontinus.....74-7 (OD ortho dating) stationed on the frontier and famed for his knowledge of Aqueducts.

Prior to Frontinus we have.......
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Wile E. Coyote


In: Arizona
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Quintus Petillius Cerialis also known as Cerialis.

Looks familiar doesn't he.

Cerialis = Carel = Carlisle

He was commander of the Ninth Legion. Sounds familiar doesn't it. Rack those brains.Pop those pills. Yep it's the famous missing legion......

What does Tacitus say of Cerialis

" he was a bold soldier rather than a careful general, and preferred to stake everything on the issue of a single engagement. He possessed natural eloquence of a kind that readily appealed to his soldiers. His loyalty to his superiors was unshakable"


Cerialis suffered a bad defeat at Colchester supposed 61/2 (OD)

. "The victorious enemy met Petilius Cerialis, commander of the ninth legion, as he was coming to the rescue, routed his troops, and destroyed all his infantry. Cerialis escaped with some cavalry into the camp, and was saved by its fortifications." [4]


So Cerialis gets recalled to Rome. The survivors of the fiasco remain in Britain. The legion gets reinforced and Cerialis returns as governor of Britain in 71 and took command of the Ninth once more in campaigns against the Brigantes.

The Ninth legion disappears from Roman records after 108 (OD)
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Wile E. Coyote


In: Arizona
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Just North of Carlisle you find Stanwix.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanwix

Car=Stan
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