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Forgery: Modus operandi (British History)
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Ishmael


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Brilliant stuff.
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Mick Harper
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Your Relics Tonite

When churches and monasteries close there is the question of what to do with their relics. The answer? Put them on Ebay. There are presently a hundred pieces of the True Cross available, ranging from three hundred to two thousand pounds. Hurry, hurry, while stocks last.

A tricky ethical question arose when Notre Dame was going up in flames. It was explained to the firemen that a nail from and a piece of the True Cross as well as the Crown of Thorns were in a safe at the other end of burning walls and falling timber. "They are among the greatest treasures of France," the firemen were told. And off they went and saved them. Because that much is true.
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Grant



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It’s often said that all the bits of wood making up parts of the true cross collectively weigh more than the original cross.
Apparently that’s bollocks. You could put them all in a medium-sized cardboard box
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Mick Harper
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The usual expression is 'to build the ark'. The point though is that these offerings really are worth something. They are objects that a great many people have been 'worshipping' for a great many years. The way Revisionist Historiography puts it when discussing a specific museum exhibit (Object X) that the museum believes is an authentic example of a rare genre (object x's) is

Should anyone be concerned that Object X is a fake? Not at all. It is a perfectly good example of object x’s, our forger made professionally sure of that. It remains a valid teaching tool for universities and an excellent source for the edification of the public, whether it is fake or not. Revisionists should not be overly concerned about Object X. They should be concentrating on the authenticity of object x’s.

We find ourselves in the position of arguing that 'pieces of the True Cross' are fake by definition, orthodoxy argues that there are so many of them they must be genuine by definition. And anybody who says different is, by definition, a heretic opposed to the received religion of academicism and should be burnt at the stake (o.n.o.).
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Mick Harper
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One of the standard standbys for creating false history is 'oral tradition'. Anyone who pokes about a bit in the distant but not too-distant past will be aware how important these are. Here's a choice example quoted in RevHist

The White Book of Rhydderch, contains the Four Branches of the Mabinogi. The Mabinogion are the earliest prose stories of the literature of Britain. The stories were compiled in Middle Welsh in the 12th–13th centuries from earlier oral traditions.

That's from the official authority for Welsh history and is the 'evidence' for early Welsh literature. A much less egregious example came up today on medium.com

St Mawes
A 6th century Celtic preacher about whom a number of unlikely legends arosehttps://medium.com/@johnwelford15/st-mawes-1aa7460aa757
The English county of Cornwall is dotted with villages and small towns that take their names from long-forgotten Celtic saints. One of these is St Mawes, on the eastern side of the Fal estuary, that is noted for its 16th century castle.

So, we have a Cornish town named after a saint. Nothing wrong with that, right?

The stories of saints such as Mawes date from the “dark ages” between the departure of the Romans and the arrival of the Anglo-Saxons, and owe much to oral tradition. The extent to which they are legend as opposed to fact is therefore a matter for conjecture.

Notice how two things are becoming established. Cornwall is Christian before the Anglo-Saxons (and hence before England) though presumably both were Christian under the Romans. But secondly, historians are going to some pains to emphasise they are being properly cautious about what is and what is not historical evidence.

Mawes was supposed to have born, in the 6th century, in a barrel floating in the sea after his pregnant mother had been thrown in it off the cliffs of Brittany. Five months later mother and child were washed up on the coast of Ireland. What proportion of legend to fact would you assign so far?

Presumably none.

When he grew up, Mawes decided to return to Brittany but visited Cornwall en route, which is where he founded the community now named after him.

Ah well, now some. It's still called St Mawes after all. No arguing with that.

He gathered several followers during his activity of open-air preaching, and these followed him across to Brittany where he landed on a small island (Ile Modez) that became the site for a monastic community.

Since this couldn't be known via 'oral tradition' this is presumably from historical sources. But we haven't been told where one left off and the other began. Some other stuff followed but we can cut to the chase

Mick Harper wrote:
When you say 'oral tradition', how does this work exactly? By my reckoning it would need about fifty generations of vicars? school ma'ams? wiseacres in pubs? saying to fifty-one generations of children, "Hearken to my story. Our blessed St Mawes was born in a barrel after his mother was thrown off a cliff in that there France but got washed up in Ireland. Called in here on the way back though, he did. Aye, that he did. I'll have mine in a straight glass, if you wouldn't mind."

I was interested in how John would react to this. He usually says, "I'm just quoting what it says in such and such." But to his credit he took me on (a bit)

John Welford wrote:
Oral tradition does not have to start at the time when the event (etc) was supposed to have taken place. It could originate at virtually any point between then and now - presumably when someone asked a question and someone else reckoned that they might have the answer - quite possibly after a pint or six, as you suggest!

Rather too much for his own good.

Mick Harper wrote:
In other words it is worthless. Yet I can guarantee that every academic and his dog (Spot, not you) will use it to buttress some account he is putting together about something which has such a paucity of evidence that he shouldn't be writing an account of it in the first place. It is quite scandalous but people like having something to talk about (which is fine by me) and historians like to tell them what they should be talking about (which is not fine by me).

I daresay you will be telling me you're just recounting it as a contribution to the passing motley and it's all very harmless. But you are doing your bit for the propagation of false history all the same. A twinge of guilt on your part is all I ask.

A bit precious of me, I have to say, but my dander was engorged. We'll see if he or anyone else comes back.
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Mick Harper
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John Welford wrote:
Mick, I thought I had made clear in my piece that all the supposed facts about St Mawes are merely conjecture and that hardly anything is known about him that can be accepted as true history. However, the stories are worth re-telling merely for their interest as fantasy tales - no more, no less.

Mick Harper wrote:
So you did, so they are. But someone, at some time, must have decided that Mawes not only existed but needed commemorating with a town named after him. The question is who and why. Though above all, when. Not, as is so often alleged to be the case in Wales, because he founded the town, he was just passing through! The church is very late medieval. The next puzzle is the source of tall tales that nobody could possibly believe about their beloved local saint. I'd say they rather brought the town (not to mention their religion) into disrepute.

And one thing that might interest you, it's connected by a very unusual waterway to the third largest natural harbour in the world. Isn't Poole Harbour supposed to be the largest in Europe? No end to St Mawes mysteries if you decide to go looking. None of them to be found in library books, I'm afraid.

I thought it politic not to mention that I had been looking for all of twenty minutes.
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Hatty
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According to the online Cornish dictionary, maw means boy, lad. Not unlike Welsh mab meaning son.
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Mick Harper
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I think that's a red herring because we may be able to solve the conundrum from first principles

Apart from the castle, the most interesting historic site in St Mawes is the parish church, dedicated to St Maudez, a 5th-century Irish saint.

We can discount fifth century Irish saints but we can track down St Maudez

Maudez established a chapel and holy well here by the river mouth. The chapel was in use throughout the medieval period. We do not know exactly when it was built, but it was mentioned in documents from 1427. The chapel was abandoned in the late 16th century.

In other words we can discount anything Christian in the pre-Norman period, the whole thing is entirely Megalithic. St Mawes is the Megalithic port of Falmouth, perched opposite Brittany (I am assuming the Lizard is a navigational hazard rather than a vantage point). The other end of the sea route is the Ile Modez (Fr: Maudez) a tidal island perched at the northernmost point of the Breton coast between Finisterre and the Cotentin peninsula. This is a modern ferry map to provide the gist. The Ile Modez is off the hump to the east of Roscoff



At the very northernmost tip of Ile Modez there is d'accord...

The Saint-Michel chapel once located in the north of the island no longer exists. There is also a well on the island.

So it is a Megalithic entrepôt in earlier times. Then as usual it takes on a Christian patina in Norman times

Ile Modez became the site for a monastic community.

and then turns to other money-making ventures when the Megalithic trade dwindles to nothing in medieval times

It is a very popular place of pilgrimage.

We turn to the physical evidence

It conceals several archaeological remains (menhir , fertility stone, sculpted stones, etc.) that have not been studied (only the oratory and the fishery have been studied)

The fishery is especially significant

It is located on the northwest coast of the island. It is a natural basin redesigned as a fish trap by the addition of dikes and lines of stones used to stretch nets at low tide. It seems to have been used by local fishermen until modern times.
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Mick Harper
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So we (presumably) have three tin routes

1. West Cornwall to the Mediterranean from Penzance Bay (Michael's Mount)
2. Mid-Cornwall to Brittany from Falmouth (St Mawes) to Ile Modez
3. East Cornwall/Devon from Plymouth Sound (Burgh Island) to France (Mont St Michel)

and two copper routes
1. Weymouth Bay (Portland) to St Malo
2. Poole Harbour to ... er, did we ever work that out? Cherbourg is a bit modern.
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Wile E. Coyote


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There is evidence for tin and gold on the Morne Mountains (Northern Ireland), Wiley reckons the routes went through the Irish sea zone. This is presumably why the origins of the Saints are mixed up. You don't know if they are Irish, Welsh or from Brittany? St Maudez like St Patrick is known for snake clearance, maybe this is to do with the dangers of snakes in mining areas, you need to clear the area?
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Wile E. Coyote


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St Patrick brought skilled metal workers with him to Ireland, to start a metal working tradition. Bells, chalices etc. This seems strange. The metal workers must have already been there.
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Mick Harper
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We should think about bells for a bit. They seem awfully important both in the history of the Church and in the development of metallurgy -- not to mention they are fiendishly difficult to make while not having any particularly required utility -- to ignore them completely.

We know all about their function in churches for summoning the faithful. Though without them a muezzin does the job nicely. But they are even more mysterious in ships. We know all about "Four Bells" and "Eight Bells' to summon the next shift but, again, a petty office kicking the bottom of their hammocks would surely do a better job than some damn fool midshipman dingalinging on the fo'c's'l.

No, it must be something Megalithic. Bells sound especially well over water and every bell is different -- hence their traditional use in lighthouses and marker buoys. Decisively useful in fog and at night. So why not each ship announcing (uniquely) its imminent arrival? Or each port announcing it is in close(ish) proximity? If everyone needs 'em maybe the megalithic metallurgists used them as samples.
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Wile E. Coyote


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I am currently rewriting volume 1 on the dangers of megalithic sea travel.

Original

"It was dangeous, only to be undertaken by those seeking to come to Britain's dangerous shores, by those with specialist seafaring skills."

Is now replaced by.

"Any bugger could get on a leaky boat and make it over "
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Mick Harper
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That is always the desideratum according to the Megalithic Way since the two overriding system considerations for pre-literate long distance trade are
1. Journeys will mostly be from a known point A to an unknown point B
2. Journeys will mostly be undertaken by people who are professional traders not professional navigators

This may not apply to regular cross-Channel trade but as the bean counters back at ME HQ like to put it, "Make it simple and make it last."
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Mick Harper
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The further exchanges were not without interest from an AE perspective.

Mick: We have worked out (to our satisfaction) where St Mawes fits into the wider historical picture here [i.e. here]. Starts halfway down the page. Though my guess is it won't be to your satisfaction!
John: I'm always willing to take new ideas on board!
Mick: Everyone says that but if I ask them to name the last three they are strangely reticent.
John: Taking ideas on board is not the same as accepting them without question!
Mick: People always say that when they are being reticent about the last time they took a new idea on board (after thoroughly questioning it).
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