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William of Occam (NEW CONCEPTS)
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Mick Harper
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Gordium is in the Polatli district of Anatolia.

The Palatinate of Durham was also founded by some people turning up with a cart. (St Cuthbert's body had got stuck in a field.)

Of course this Dye/Die is one step too far...

Don't forget 'die' (singular of dice) with its links to divination... and all sorts. We have mentioned the importance of apparently worthless by-products. If you are making spears out of cornel wood you are making cornel shavings, if you are making cornel shavings you are looking for a use for cornel shavings. And of course vice versa.

In the Middle Ages, the valley of the Sakarya was the home of the Söğüt tribe, which went on to establish the Ottoman Empire.

Alternatively they were from somewhere obscure and faraway and, for some reason, wished to associate themselves with somewhere altogether more important cf Christians shifting Jesus to Bethlehem.
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Wile E. Coyote


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Mick Harper wrote:

Of course this Dye/Die is one step too far...

Don't forget 'die' (singular of dice) with its links to divination... and all sorts. We have mentioned the importance of apparently worthless by-products. If you are making spears out of cornel wood you are making cornel shavings, if you are making cornel shavings you are looking for a use for cornel shavings. And of course vice versa.


You are looking for knucklebones.......and they were there.

Keep up.
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Hatty
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Alternatively they were from somewhere obscure and faraway and, for some reason, wished to associate themselves with somewhere altogether more important cf Christians shifting Jesus to Bethlehem.

This could tie in with shells, the pilgrim's badge. Mementos of faraway places redolent of sanctity or just a form of currency. But hugely symbolic for travellers presumably.


In a Megalithic vein it sounds like shell beaches, as yet unexplained, are artificial. Whether they were intentional isn't clear.

Shell Island, also known as Mochras, is a peninsula lying west of Llanbedr in Gwynedd, Wales. It was formed after the River Artro was diverted by the Earl of Winchelsey in 1819 from its previous course where it entered the sea to the south of Shell Island. Prior to this, access to the ancient settlement on the island would have been through the village of Llandanwg, which is now across the estuary.

Mochras doesn't mean shell in Welsh. The actual translation might be 'pig race' (moch + ras). It's not much of a beach apart from its "amazing variety of shells" but the causeway is presumably connected to the nearby coastal llans, aka churches, which are intervisible.

The distribution pattern of groups of churches along the seaboard of Ardudwy is of note, the churches in each group being in close proximity to one another. St Tanwg's, along with St Mary's, Llanfair, and St Peter's, Llanbedr, are one such group, being located within about a mile and a half of each other. It has recently been suggested that the group may also include St Michaels, Llanfihangel-y-traethau and St Tecwyn's, Llandecwyn.
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Mick Harper
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The most famous shell beaches in Britain are
1) on the island of Herm (=Hermes) with its tidal island twin Jethou (= the navel of the world) and
2) Studland Bay next to Poole Harbour, the Megalithic capital of ... um ... I forget

As far as I know not even the crazies have ever claimed shell beaches are artificial, and they do occur in places not obviously Megalithic. But the orthodox accounts for their existence seem remarkably sketchy e g Herm's Shell Beach is because it's brushed by the Gulf Stream. Unlike the other 13,554 beaches. We shall need to work out how it's done -- not necessarily deliberately, they may be slag heaps.

Or of course Megalithics were drawn to shell beaches for some reason.
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Wile E. Coyote


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Wile E. Coyote wrote:


You are looking for knucklebones.......and they were there.



https://www.penn.museum/sites/expedition/astragali-the-ubiquitous-gaming-pieces/

They littered the Gordian site, many were dyed red.........
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Wile E. Coyote


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Boom!

Just saying.
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Mick Harper
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Knucklebones are clearly an ingredient in the dying process and only latterly used for other purposes (and misinterpreted by archaeologists for these other purposes). Or am I behindhand again?
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Ishmael


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You guys have missed the point with William of Occam. I'm going to restart this thread elsewhere, where I intend to build my case to a most disturbing conclusion.
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Wile E. Coyote


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Ishmael wrote:
You guys have missed the point with William of Occam. I'm going to restart this thread elsewhere, where I intend to build my case to a most disturbing conclusion.


Apologies.
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Mick Harper
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Call the new thread Christopher of Occam.
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Wile E. Coyote


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Mick Harper wrote:
Knucklebones are clearly an ingredient in the dying process and only latterly used for other purposes (and misinterpreted by archaeologists for these other purposes). Or am I behindhand again?


The knot we now know was dyed red/purple using the bark of the cornel cherry presumably in the same way that the bark is used to dye Fezzs red. So that leaves open the question the material used.....

There are a number of clues:

1) Linguistic: to knot is to knit

2) In some of the versions Alexander does not get frustrated and slash the knot, he merely removes a peg (of a loom?)

These two myths, Gordian Knot /Midas Touch, are in fact knitted or woven together by threads of red/purple wool......that precedes the gold.

BTW

Knt=Nt=Mt=Md the Knot is linked to Midas (later on we will look at Mithras)

https://bit.ly/2HUD2pJ
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Wile E. Coyote


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I have no doubt that Darius felt well protected by his immortals......

https://cosmolearning.org/images/the-immortals-of-persian-king-darius-933/
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Mick Harper
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Sorry to be so one-dimensional but about these knucklebones. What I'd like to know is
1. Are we dealing with real ones i.e. the dying process needs a bit of organic input
2. Are we dealing with mineral ones that just look like knucklebones i.e. the dying process needs a chemical input
3. Does it not matter either way i.e. the dying process needs some small knobbly things to, say, nap the cloth.
4. Am I spelling 'dying' correctly? I am uneasy.
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Wile E. Coyote


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Mick Harper wrote:
Sorry to be so one-dimensional but about these knucklebones. What I'd like to know is
1. Are we dealing with real ones i.e. the dying process needs a bit of organic input
2. Are we dealing with mineral ones that just look like knucklebones i.e. the dying process needs a chemical input
3. Does it not matter either way i.e. the dying process needs some small knobbly things to, say, nap the cloth.
4. Am I spelling 'dying' correctly? I am uneasy.


Well you are right to be uneasy, you wouldn't want to end up in the canyon.....

Not the sort of trifle to worry Wiley.....at this time.

To get something going you just really need lots of fuzzy thinking explanatory potential at the start. There are bound to be things wrong.

Still coin is ultimately evidence based, so I feel duty bound to say that bones are susceptible to natural dyes/dyeing.....jewelry, knife handles, bone chess sets (geddit) so the answer is 1 . (probably) Not that it really matters much, (well to me) at this time.

One of the evidence ideas I toyed with when I saw your post.....was this Turkey Red

https://www.britannica.com/plant/madder

Madder ......Md

Just resolved to leave it for later, as someone will just post to say it can't be.
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Hatty
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Catholic Advent says there were three emperors called Gordian and they all met violent deaths. Gordian knot (dyed red) may have been a metaphor for a sticky end, later watered down to 'problem'.
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