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Hatty
Site Admin
In: Berkshire
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Historians says it's a tenth- or eleventh-century copy of an earlier (7th-? 8th-? 9th- century?) manuscript though no written mention anywhere of Beowulf exists before Nowell.
It seems you can get away with guesswork in approved publications such as ANQ though the writer does admit to "the absence of hard facts"
| ...we know practically nothing of the manuscript's whereabouts before it found its way into the great Cottonian collection. Indeed, the first public notice of the manuscript was not until 1705. |
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/08957690009598081?journalCode=vanq20
Even historians might think it uncanny that Nowell was both the first owner of the Beowulf MS and the first compiler of an Anglo-Saxon dictionary.
Phrases like 'found its way' make it sound like no-one actually placed the Nowell Codex in the library because, of course, no-one knows
| When it was joined with the other four texts that make up the Nowell Codex is not known, however. |
though Kevin Kiernan, a leading Beowulf specialist, thinks it would have been in the sixteenth century. Quite a natural conclusion.
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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I am currently being excoriated on Twitter for even thinking this needs a bit of investigation. Always remember that academics are neither wicked nor lazy. They are just really, really stupid. Trained to be stupid of course -- a bit like scientologists.
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Well, you always knew you would rattle their cages.
Meanwhile, er.... 17 years ago, the Welsh Heritage Campaign scented blood where the Lichfield Gospels were concerned:
In a dispute laced with simmering Celtic indignation over age-old Anglo-Saxon prejudice, Wales is calling for an English cathedral to return the ancient gospels it has held for more than 1,000 years.
The eighth-century St Teilo Gospels are said to have been stolen from Llandeilo Fawr, in west Wales AD1000, They now lie in Lichfield Cathedral, Staffordshire. At the core of the struggle is an academic debate over whether the Welsh were capable of creating the work - renamed St Chad's Gospels by the English. |
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/welsh-want-english-cathedral-to-return-their-gospel-284582.html
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Things had calmed down five years later:
The vicar of St Teilo's Church in Llandeilo, The Rev Dr Peter Bement, said the original manuscript was fragile and light-sensitive so an electronic copy was ideal for the church.
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and just like in the old days...
Dr Bement said the virtual reality book would be accompanied by an exhibition under the medieval tower - the oldest part of the church.
He hoped would help tourism and become an added attraction on the planned Towy Valley tourism trail.
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Of course, that's what they were for!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/south_west/4375008.stm
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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This is not a case of two bald men fighting over a comb but two hirsute men fighting over a non-existent comb.
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| Mick Harper wrote: | | This is not a case of two bald men fighting over a comb but two hirsute men fighting over a non-existent comb. |
Virtual unreality.
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Hatty
Site Admin
In: Berkshire
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The York Gospels opens the batting with three land charters, namely
Survey of Lands: Sherburn-in-Elmet
Survey of Lands: Otley
Survey of Lands: Ripon
It seems to be one of the holiest books ever, "still used today for the Canons and Archbishop to swear their allegiance on", but the provenance is uncertain ("probably" Christ Church Canterbury).
| in addition to the four gospels, contains the oaths taken by the deans and canons, documents about land ownership and the letter of King Cnut (r.1016-1035) that is reproduced here. The book was produced at Canterbury c. 1000 and came to York with Archbishop Wulfstan around 1020. It is one of only ten pre-conquest Gospel books to have survived the Reformation |
So it's truly exciting to learn that a team of geneticists carried out a Non-Destructive DNA Analysis (aka 'Biomolecular Sampling'), The York Gospels: a one thousand year biological palimpsest.
| This biological data provides insights into the decisions made in the selection of materials, the construction of the codex and the use history of the object. |
The question that must surely arise is how can a book be authenticated/ how much damage ensues as a result of, as they put it
| the harsh alkaline treatment that is an integral part of the parchment production process |
So far their most unexpected results are
a) the lateness of the interpolations and
b) the vellum (only one sheepskin, the rest all calfskin, though admittedly a small sample) is almost exclusively from female animals (4 female, 1 male... though again, small sample).
| Sex identification [27] was attempted for all eight bifolio sampled for DNA analysis (supplementary table with high confidence assignments being deduced for five. Four out of the five reliably typed animals in the original Gospel document (prior to the later circa 14th C additions) were found to be female. |
Presumably milk-producers were less useful than stronger animals for pulling heavy loads and ploughing?
But this is the sentence that seems most significant
| the original gospels are of calfskin (except for one bifolia made of sheep) and the later additions (C 14th) are made exclusively of sheepskin |
because according to the scientists you don't want to mess around with sheepskin when interpolating
| A possible explanation for the use of sheepskin for these subsequent additions that contain oaths, deeds and personal correspondence is found in the The Dialogus de Scaccario which describes a preference for legal documents to be written on sheepskin to avoid erasure and fraud of the written details. Unlike calf and goat, sheepskin has a lower density of collagen fibres at the base of the (more abundant) hair follicles, which means that the skin can split and the upper layer peel away if the parchment is roughly abraded. |
It doesn't even seem to be an 'Anglo-Saxon gospel book' as the official description has it
| In relation to the later sheepskin additions to the document a 16th century inventory describes the York Gospels as “A text, decorated with silver, not well gilt, on which the oaths of the dean and other dignities and canons are inserted at the beginningâ€. This description would seem to imply that not only the text but the bifolia themselves were later 14thC additions. |
Ahh. Bless their white cotton gloves.
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Hatty
Site Admin
In: Berkshire
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York Minster: Founded c 627 by Edwin, king of Northumbria (source: Bede)
Archaeology:
| No physical remains of the Anglo-Saxon Cathedral have yet been found. Our knowledge of it therefore is derived from literary and documentary sources. |
http://archaeologydataservice.ac.uk/archiveDS/archiveDownload?t=arch-1416-1/dissemination/pdf/9781848022249_ALL_72.pdf
It was a major Anglo-Saxon church/shrine of King Edwin
| By the late 8th century the stone church begun by Edwin was evidently a building of some size and magnificence. Edwin’s head, retrieved after his death at the hands of the pagan Penda, was buried in a porticus dedicated to St Gregory, further evidence of a conscious indebtedness to the papal mission. |
As per usual there's a misalignment between the sources (detailed) and the architectural history (not understood)
| “The building that was gradually replaced by the church now known to thousands of modern tourists is only imperfectly understood. It can be recreated in varying degrees of detail from literary sources, documents, visual records and from the results of archaeological investigation. Aspects of its building history remain unclear and much remains unpublished.†|
and even Edwin is conspicuously absent
| “...Edwin’s head, a relic around which the Anglo-Saxon Cathedral had been built, probably did not survive into the late 11th century and does not appear in the later lists of the Minster’s relics.†| |
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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Here is a conundrum for you, I mean you, not orthodoxy (they have an easy time of it). Your archaeos have just uncovered a 4th century Roman mosaic. It's the most exciting discovery of its kind in half a century.
https://www.rt.com/uk/401845-roman-mosaic-greek-berkshire/
| The mythical figures depicted on the ancient artwork include Hercules, a Greek hero adapted by the Romans for their literature and art; Pegasus the Greek winged horse; Cupid, the Roman god of desire, and the Chimera, a mythical fire-breathing beast |
They might have just as well written Heracles (Greek) Pegasus (Greek) Eros (Greek) Chimera (Greek)
In fact they might just as well have written Hercle (Etruscan) Pecse (Etruscan) Erus (Etruscan) Chimera (Etruscan)
But no, they manage to get two Roman and two Greek symbols, as it must signify that it is Roman err based on the Greek,
The Etruscans can get lost...........
Anyway orthodoxy has it that a Roman who liked Greek mythology commissioned a mosaic about Greek myths in the 4th century in Boxford.
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Hatty
Site Admin
In: Berkshire
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Wall Street Journal has an advert under 'Miscellaneous' for Dead Sea Scrolls manuscripts. No price given so assume they're astronomically expensive.
http://religionnews.com/2017/10/05/the-dead-sea-scrolls-discovery-still-riveting-after-70-years/
The Israel Times disagrees volubly and at great length in an article entitled
DEAD SEA SCROLLS SCAM: Dozens of recently sold fragments are fakes, experts warn
Since 2002, collectors have paid millions for portions of ancient text. As DC's Museum of the Bible prepares to open with several such pieces, evidence of fraud emerges |
The private collectors being 'duped' (the Museum of the Bible in particular) are paying for the research that has questioned the authenticity of the scroll fragments, according to Dr Kipp Davis, a palaeographer
In conversation with The Times of Israel, Davis said while he is convinced that six of the fragments are forgeries, “that number could be higher. There are people out there that think that all 13 of the fragments are fake. I’m not quite there, but I have colleagues who are fairly sure they are forgeries.â€
Far from ignoring the forgery assertions, the Museum of the Bible is sponsoring Davis’s research and that of other scholars. |
The usefulness of carbon dating is disputed by Dr Davis. Not quite sure how accurately he dated his leather samples
In the past, carbon dating the leather parchment would have been a sure way to test for authenticity. However, because it is suspected that many of these “new†fragments use ancient 2,000-year-old leather as their “slate,†old stand-by technology is insufficient.
“Carbon dating is no longer good. Ancient material can and almost certainly has been manipulated in modern times,†said Davis. |
but he does approve of non-invasive sampling
| With carbon dating off the table, international scholars are turning to new, noninvasive testing for proving — or disproving — the authenticity of the “dubious†fragments in private collections. |
https://www.timesofisrael.com/dead-sea-scrolls-scam-dozens-of-recently-sold-fragments-are-fakes-experts-warn/
It sounds more reliable than going by the style of the writing.
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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Urquhart Press sent a copy of Forgeries to the Museum of The Bible with this covering letter (without response)
I read in the British press that you are opening a new museum and that Dr de Hamel is to be on your Advisory Council. While we have nothing against the chap—he really is an excellent choice—you should be aware that both he and your museum are likely to be coming in for a bumpy ride once this book has done the rounds. Not that you should be unduly concerned. You are the many, we are the few. So many chickens, so few foxes.
Good luck with the museum. You’ll be needing it now that Harper has demonstrated how dubious are the antecedents of all ancient books, the Bible itself not excluded. Will you be wanting him for your Advisory Council? | |
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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| In conversation with The Times of Israel, Davis said while he is convinced that six of the fragments are forgeries, “that number could be higher. There are people out there that think that all 13 of the fragments are fake. I’m not quite there, but I have colleagues who are fairly sure they are forgeries.†|
This is one-rotten-apple syndrome. Zero is a good number, thirteen is a good number, six is not a good number.
| Far from ignoring the forgery assertions, the Museum of the Bible is sponsoring Davis’s research and that of other scholars. |
This would be unusual for your average museum since the only two possible answers are
1. You wasted your money on a forgery
2. You wasted your money testing a non-forgery.
And if you thought (2) is cheap at the price, remember when insurance companies included the question "Have you ever submitted yourself to an AIDS test?"
| In the past, carbon dating the leather parchment would have been a sure way to test for authenticity. However, because it is suspected that many of these “new†fragments use ancient 2,000-year-old leather as their “slate,†old stand-by technology is insufficient. |
Pass me some 2,000 year old leather parchment, would you darling? No, not those, they're Assyrian.
| “Carbon dating is no longer good. Ancient material can and almost certainly has been manipulated in modern times,†said Davis. |
Well, you'd have to re-write the laws of subatomic physics but who knows what's going on in the really secret labs in Washington and Jerusalem.
| but he does approve of non-invasive sampling |
Me too. You don't have to scrape off a miscroscopic smidgeon of ink or paper any more, just bombard the whole thing with rays.
| With carbon dating off the table, |
Oh, that's what he meant.
| international scholars are turning to new, noninvasive testing for proving — or disproving — the authenticity of the “dubious†fragments in private collections. |
If you read the whole article you will find the amateurishness of both forgers and authenticators hilarious.
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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Some of you will remember our discussion about the St Petersburg Bede and how we considered it a forgery on the grounds (from memory and inter alia)
1. Catherine the Great was scouring Europe for goodies to put in the Hermitage and lo! her collectors found them.
2. The most famous Anglo-Saxon Chronicle is the Peterborough ASC meaning that the two most famous versions of the two most famous Anglo-Saxon works come from Peterborough and Petersburg and Peterborough means Petersburg.
3. The St Pete Bede held various 'world records', normally a forgery giveaway, to which the sublime Levi Roach has added another on his twitter page
| Allegedly the oldest known illuminated initial, found w/i the Leningrad Bede (NLR, MS lat. Q. v. I. 18; 731-746 ). |
Still, the Petrograd connection seems to have gone away.
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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The tradition is flourishing. This life-long collector buys autographed photos of Bruce Springsteen, Michael Jackson and Mohammed Ali from Britain's most reputable dealer. Twenty years later an authenticator points out they are all printed on the same paper!
I can't tell you the source of this information as it would reveal what daytime telly programmes I watch and I don't watch any obviously.
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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Anyone fancy the big league? A review of Peter Marshall's 1517 has just appeared on Vulpes Libris written by ‘Moira’, one of their founding fathers. Those of you with long memories will know she wrote an equivocal review of THOBR but nixed any review of Forgeries. That’s not the big league, Martin Luther forgeries is the big league.
| Preserved in the royal archives in Sweden is a letter addressed to Albrecht, Archbishop of Mainz and dated the 31st of October 1517. It was written by a young priest who was then professor of biblical studies at Wittenberg University. His name was Martin Luther. |
Bit of background. The Swedish royal archives is also where the Wulfillas Bible (the ur-text for ‘Gothic’) resides. And other stuff we've found iffy from time to time. Hatty will know.
| The tone of the letter is deferential, befitting a lowly Augustinian friar writing to the most senior churchman in the province, but the content is uncompromising. (My underlinings) |
Sounds OK-ish. From a Swedish, Protestant, forgery angle, it has to have the first to be believable and the second to be useful but an authentic letter might contain the same uneasy mix. Nothing major to worry about yet.
More later
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