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Inventing History : forgery: a great British tradition (British History)
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Mick Harper
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I'm no pedant but T'was is a common error. The apostrophe denotes the missing I and therefore the whole should be rendered 'Twas. Unless you were being informally informal. Sorry about the outcome of your Dartmoor expedition.
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Boreades


In: finity and beyond
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I am a pedant, and I think you should know that, because "It was" becomes 'Twas, "It wasn't" should be treated similarly. 'Twat.
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Boreades


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Mick Harper wrote:
However it is your duty to watch on and report back. With chapter and verse not URLs.


I was almost tempted to start a blow-by-blow account of the proceedings. Then a little deja-vu feeling quietly crept into the crypt I call my mind, crapped, and crept out again.

I've tried doing this for my wife. It's a thankless task.

A summarised version of accounts gets short shrift. Is that all that happened? Why did you waste your time watching that?

A highly detailed version gets long shrift. But why did he do that? That doesn't make any sense. Are you sure you've got the story right? (and so on, ad nauseum)

Look, I'm not the bloody author, why don't you watch it yourself.
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Mick Harper
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Maybe I should because when I watched/read it the first time round, I believed it all. Now I don't. I have what Marxists call 'a raised consciousness' though in the case of Marxists it's mostly a false consciousness.

I had an experience of this on holiday. I had taken for my beach reading Rebecca West's Black Lamb and Grey Falcon, an account of Yugoslavia before the war, and discovered that Petronius' Satyricon was written in Dalmatia in the seventeenth century. Of course Rebecca West didn't know this, and nor did I when I read her first time round, but she gave me (and Hatty who was reading over my shoulder, I wish she wouldn't) all the materials to conclude it was. Equally, Umberto Eco knows far more than I do about William of Ockham and Duns Scotius so no doubt he will prove to be equally revealing.
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Hatty
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I also read the book by Eco and watched the Sean Connery film with uncritical admiration. The TV version for some reason makes me think wistfully of Terry Pratchett because only the Librarian can navigate around the Invisible University's library. I wish I'd started reading him later.
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Boreades


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Well, that makes three of us. I thought it was Sean Connery's best-ever mature role.

It's only second time around I've started noticing things I didn't notice before. Like how well Umberto Eco constructs the plot.

I expect a properly trained thespian would know the proper term for things. Like Adso da Melk (the apprentice to William) being the literary device via which Eco gets William to explain things to the dim-witted audience (me). Does that have a name?
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Hatty
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British Library is pleased to tweet

This leaf from an 8th-century Northumbrian manuscript (Justinus’s Epitome) is one of several hundred fragments in the Harley collection, all of them acquired by the shoemaker turned bookmaker John Bagford.

They neglected to put 'acquired' in quotes. How could we overlook The Shelves and The Shoemaker.

One of the lesser-known collections of manuscript fragments at the British Library is that of John Bagford (1650/1–1716), now part of the Harley collection. John Bagford was a London shoemaker turned bibliophile and bookseller. A friend of the leading antiquarians of his time, he is known today mostly as a collector of Restoration-period ballads.

Ballads are scraps, or 'fragments' in BL lingo. But 'collector of ballads' really doesn't do him justice. His clientele included several names already in our black book

...he became active in the book-trading market in Holborn from 1680, travelling to Haarlem, Leiden, and Amsterdam on this business and aiding such collectors as John Moore, Robert and Edward Harley, Sir Hans Sloane, Samuel Pepys and John Woodward. Becoming friends with fellow antiquarians such as Thomas Hearne, Humfrey Wanley and Thomas Baker, he published antiquarian tracts, contributed to others, and edited an edition of Geoffrey Chaucer published by John Urry

Bagford, together with Humfrey Wanley and John Talman, was one of three ‘founder members of the reconstituted ‘Society of Antiquaries’, which first met at the Bear Tavern on the Strand on December 5, 1707
.


It makes sense for the shoemaker-cum-antiquary to use up scraps. He didn't seem too concerned what they were supposed to be part of

The Bagford collection includes nearly 300 manuscript fragments collected in six volumes, ranging from modest vellum scraps to full-size parchment and paper leaves. Bagford collected the fragments indiscriminately and did not arrange them in a specific order, with the sole exception of Harley MS 5958, which contains mainly fragments of musical manuscripts.

Originally, Bagford’s collection also included fragments of early printed books, but these were removed from the original volumes at the British Museum and are preserved separately. His scrapbooks contain fragments from a large variety of manuscripts dating from the 8th century down to the end of the Middle Ages. While fragments of musical, liturgical and biblical manuscripts are the most numerous, there is also a large number of fragments of patristic, scientific, classical, grammatical and legal texts
.

https://blogs.bl.uk/digitisedmanuscripts/2019/10/john-bagford-bibliophile-or-biblioclast.html
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Hatty
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It gets curioser. The BL Medieval Manuscripts department is keen to get more info about Mr Bagford

We've been finding out more about the manuscript fragments collected by John Bagford (d. 1716).

This fragment is from Alfredus the Englishman’s translation of a Arabic work on plants by Nicolaus of Damascus, now lost, itself translated from Syriac.

https://twitter.com/BLMedieval/status/1187806306603880448
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Mick Harper
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Any team would need a leatherworker to take care of that most vital part of any new old book, the carefully weathered cover. If he used the same last this should show up from an examination of all his 'acquisitions'.
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Hatty
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Bagford was described as mutilating books to collect, or rather collate, 'title-pages'

John Bagford. An antiquarian collector, who had a mania for mutilating all the books he could lay hands on, in order to collect title-pages, old types, printers’ colophons, etc..

from Gesta Typographica by Chas. Jacobi, 1897
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Ishmael


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Boreades wrote:
Were the "Greats" also invented as romantic fiction? To "big-up" some part of English history now 99% forgotten?.

Holy shit. Even I have not considered going THAT far. 19th century I consider mostly accurate history. But the truth is, I haven't examined it directly as yet. And absolutely everything that I HAVE examined directly has utterly collapsed under the scrutiny.

That said, I have come to suspect that Shakespeare is.....

....a German import!
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Ishmael


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Cnut, by the way, is yet another form of that Khan-Tzar word pattern I talk so much about.

Cn = Khan

T = Tzar

Cnt

The vowel is added.
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Ishmael


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Mick Harper wrote:
Maybe I should because when I watched/read it the first time round, I believed it all. Now I don't. I have what Marxists call 'a raised consciousness'...

So glad you could come and join me over here.

...discovered that Petronius' Satyricon was written in Dalmatia in the seventeenth century..

I'd love to hear the evidence.

But I understand the hesitancy to lay it out. I've got so much to share with everyone concerning my own discoveries but it takes so long to lay out the material. And for so long now I've been focusing my energies on writing this book. Getting closer to completion now.
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Wile E. Coyote


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Ishmael wrote:
Cnut, by the way, is yet another form of that Khan-Tzar word pattern I talk so much about.

Cn = Khan

T = Tzar

Cnt

The vowel is added.


Count is interesting. In the "numerical" sense 1,2,3 and the "rely on" sense it implies truth to be relied upon, it also has a sense of to "tell a story." It is a sacred history.

On Line wrote:
count (v.)
late 14c., "to enumerate, assign numerals to successively and in order; repeat the numerals in order," also "to reckon among, include," from Old French conter "to count, add up," also "tell a story," from Latin computare "to count, sum up, reckon together," from com "with, together" (see com-) + putare "to reckon," originally "to prune," from PIE root *pau- (2) "to cut, strike, stamp."

Intransitive sense "be of value or worth" is from 1857. Related: Counted; counting. Modern French differentiates compter "to count" and conter "to tell," but they are cognates. To count on "rely or depend upon" is from 1640s. To count against (transitive) "to be to the disadvantage of" is by 1888. To count (someone) in "consider (someone) a participant or supporter" is from 1857; count (someone) out in the opposite sense "leave out of consideration" is from 1854.


It is also a title. Was Cnut a count?

count (n.1)

title of nobility in some continental nations, corresponding to English earl, c. 1300, from Anglo-French counte "count, earl" (Old French conte), from Latin comitem (nominative comes) "companion, attendant," the Roman term for a provincial governor, from com "with" (see com-) + stem of ire "to go" (from PIE root *ei- "to go"). The term was used in Anglo-French to render Old English eorl, but the word was never truly naturalized and mainly was used with reference to foreign titles.

In ancient Rome and the Roman empire, [a comes was] a companion of or attendant upon a great person; hence, the title of an adjutant to a proconsul or the like, afterward specifically of the immediate personal counselors of the emperor, and finally of many high officers, the most important of whom were the prototypes of the medieval counts. [Century Dictionary]


These Khan leaders come with a Chronos and a Mythology.
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Boreades


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The term was used in Anglo-French to render Old English eorl, but the word was never truly naturalized and mainly was used with reference to foreign titles.


Excuse my ignorance, I don't understand how "Count" becomes "Eorl". Or are they pulling a fast one by conflating two different nobility titles?
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