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Meetings with Remarkable Forgeries (British History)
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Ishmael


In: Toronto
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More details please!

I fully endorse this theory!

But Julius Caesar is so much closer to us in history than anyone could ever suspect!

('cept me)
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Wile E. Coyote


In: Arizona
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Ishmael wrote:
More details please!

I fully endorse this theory!

But Julius Caesar is so much closer to us in history than anyone could ever suspect!

('cept me)


Jesus was Julius is here https://www.carotta.de/subseite/texte/esumma.html

How and why Augustus became a messenger will be the subject of another thread. Guias Octavian appears in a number of Guises.
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Mick Harper
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In: London
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It was left trailing in Forgeries and Megalithic Empire but the clear implication is that Christianity was invented by the Normans (to use a Megalithic shorthand) because they wanted a unifying credo with which to stop the apparently unstoppable advance of Islam. The placing of events in Palestine would then be an attempt to meld the Roman Empire with Mohammedanism. Similarly Jesus is an amalgam of a Roman Emperor and a Desert Mystic.

Something like that. Not only does my mind boggle but I am determined not to be lured down the ultra-radicalism of you two guys. I am needed for more important tasks.
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Mick Harper
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In: London
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The sting is in the tail.

Call For Papers for proposed sessions at The International Medieval Congress, University of Leeds, 1-4 July 2019 Materiality and Sanctity: St Thomas Becket Among the Saints Organisers: Dr Paul Webster (Cardiff University); Dr Elma Brenner (Wellcome Collection)

2020 will be a year of major anniversaries for the history of the cults of the saints of medieval England. Particularly prominent will be the 850th anniversary of the martyrdom of St Thomas Becket and the 800th anniversary of the translation of Becket’s relics to their magnificent (now lost) shrine in the Trinity Chapel in Canterbury Cathedral.

So terribly careless of them. England's No 1 saint at England's No 1 shrine too!
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Hatty
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In: Berkshire
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This time they can't use the usual excuse of destroyed by "Vikings".
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Boreades


In: finity and beyond
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Completed in 1184, the Trinity Chapel was built to house the new shrine of Thomas Becket. The relics of St Thomas were moved from the Crypt in a grand ‘Translation’ ceremony on 7 July 1220.
Pilgrims came from far and wide to pray at the shrine until it was destroyed on orders of King Henry VIII. All that remains is a burning candle marking the site of the shrine.


Some might say that Henry VIII and the Vikings had a lot in common.

1) They didn't like the Pope
2) They both had a relaxed attitude towards marriage
3) They both looted monasteries (allegedly)
4) Err, that's all I can think of.
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Mick Harper
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This is extremely interesting. The technical meaning of 'lost' is 'can't be found' (and could I suppose be legitimately applied to a crypt) but here the replacement building, the magnificent replacement building, has been lost in the sense that Henry VIII, as it were, took it away.

But wait! It is clearly not the building that was lost but the shrine. Now 'shrine' too has a double meaning. It can be used to describe a whole 'concept' i.e. the shrine of Lourdes or it can be used to describe a coffin and its immediate accoutrements. Pilgrims travel to visit both. And what pray became of Thomas's accoutrements? Was Henry angry because Becket was a Papist or because he was an anti-royalist? A highly convenient whipping boy in either case.

It's getting spooky.
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Hatty
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In: Berkshire
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Some might say that Henry VIII and the Vikings had a lot in common.

They're both foreign.
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Mick Harper
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In: London
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I wouldn't call Welsh foreign. Oh, all right, have it your own way.
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Mick Harper
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In: London
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I give you the



Durrow High Cross. This is pretty important since it was put next to the sixth century monastery founded by St Columba which is where the seventh century Book of Durrow was written. Older than the Book of Kells forsooth! And the government thought so too

In Spring 2004 the government bought Durrow Abbey and High Cross. It was vital that the High Cross was protected from any further deterioration.

And built a chapel to put it in, as per the pic. Personally I think it may have been a slight waste of money since it is clear from the photo that fifteen hundred years out in the Irish elements doesn't seem to have done it much harm so surely another twenty years or so would have been safe enough.
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Mick Harper
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In: London
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The official website is eloquent but perhaps a little 'Irish'

Although the Early Christian monastery no longer exists, physical evidence of its importance remains

I have looked at this statement from every angle and still don't know what it means. If anyone can help...

as do the anniversaries and festivals in the locality, with the important Pattern of Durrow still taking place every year in June

Ah, money to be made there I warrant. Is this a Columba thing?

the first documented evidence of Pattern goes back to 1463

A bit later then. But still old. Maybe better to call it 'oldish'.

and has flourished from 1880s to this day and is now one of the few remaining patterns in Ireland.

It may be time for some more.
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Wile E. Coyote


In: Arizona
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Call For Papers for proposed sessions at The International Medieval Congress, University of Leeds, 1-4 July 2019 Materiality and Sanctity: St Thomas Becket Among the Saints Organisers: Dr Paul Webster (Cardiff University); Dr Elma Brenner (Wellcome Collection)



"Ahem, Ladies and Gentleman"...."Thomas Becket was a great man as was his patron Theobald of Bec. Theobald like Thomas was born in Normandy, indeed some have been as bold (ha! geddit!) to suggest that they were distantly related. In 1138 Theobald was appointed as Archbishop of Caterbury by King Stephen but it was a tempestuous relationship, err a bit like Thomas and Henry, with many disagreements over church lands and the role of secular and ecclesiastical courts".

"When Theobald died he was suceceeeded by his protege Thomas of Bec, sorry Beckett. Theobald remains buried at Canterbury but despite his importance as Archbishop and indeed temporary regent, he was never canonised as a saint or became a cult figure. One might suggest that, unlike Thomas, Theobald remains largely forgotten, but intact"

Err "That is it Folks" "Next up, please"
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Mick Harper
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In: London
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Fabulous, Wiley. Everyone on to this one. They'll have to rename a hundred schools! And my old local dahn the Old Kent Road.
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Mick Harper
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As per usual Wiki reveals the truth in line one:

Thomas Becket (also known as Saint Thomas of Canterbury, Thomas of London, and later Thomas à Becket [note 1]

[note 1] The name "Thomas à Becket" is not contemporary, and appears to be a post-Reformation creation, possibly in imitation of Thomas à Kempis.
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Mick Harper
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In: London
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And as per usual on line two

(21 December c. 1119 (or 1120) – 29 December 1170)

It's a bit rum getting his birthday exactly right (you can't go wrong with the winter solstice for a major saint's day) but not his birth year.
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