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Fake or Find (APPLIED EPISTEMOLOGY)
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Hatty
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There's a reference to the Ruthwell Cross in an entry of the diary of William Nicholson, who was Bishop of Carlisle 1702 - 1718.

He was fluent in Latin and German, had some knowledge of Scandinavian languages, was a F.R.S. (Fellow of the Royal Society), with an interest in everything antiquarian from local history to astronomy, and
showed real zeal in collecting and guarding manuscripts and other official documents

The early eighteenth century seems to be when antiquarians got really interested in runes and Bish Nic especially so, being Cumbrian. He journeyed twice to Ruthwell to inspect the remains of the cross and made drawings of the runic texts on one of the fragments.

The story of the Rothwell Cross, according to the entry in Nicolson's diary, is that

the Cross of Ruthwell was brought by sea, was shipwrecked, was found carved and inscribed, was removed as the result of a dream to a place where it could by heaven's decree pass no further, so that over it a church was erected, and within the church the monument grew till it touched the roof


In Nicholson's day 'the cross shaft was in three or four pieces' whereas in 1772 the Welsh antiquarian Thomas Pennant described it as originally in two pieces. Maybe Wile's right about the odd Cumbrian counting system..

The record of the cross's relocation
In 1802 the remains were gathered and the cross set up in the grounds of the manse with an additional transom, the original transom having been lost.

makes out there were several bits. Too much confusion to piece together.
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Mick Harper
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Yes, but this rather dashes hopes that the whole thing was dreamt up by the Rev Duncan. Your remark that

Despite its size and uniqueness, there appear to be no references to the cross anywhere.

is wide of the mark though it shifts the question back from the 19th Century to ... when? The runic inscriptions recorded by Nicholson is specially vexing since it removes the chance that Duncan just used the old legend, and a few ancient stones and put the runes on himself. We must keep reminding ourselves we are more interested in the truth than in shafting Melvyn Bragg. More interested in the truth than ...
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Hatty
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Dr Duncan who restored the Ruthwell Cross was also the person who arranged for the translation of the inscriptions by a Danish scholar, presumably because nobody else could make head nor tail.
In 1802 the next minister, Henry Duncan (1774-1846), pieced the fragments together and erected the shaft within the manse grounds, and added a new transom in 1823. In 1832 Dr Duncan gave an account of the cross to the Society of Antiquaries. It was accompanied by a fanciful interpretation of the Runic inscription by Mr Thorleifur Gudmonson Repp, and by very accurate drawings. Dr Duncan also wrote an account of the cross for the New Statistical Account.

The next translator/interpretor was John Kemble. His credentials as an authority on Anglo-Saxon history and literature are apparently to be treated with a certain caution

His thorough knowledge of the Teutonic languages and his critical faculty were shown in his Anglo-Saxon Poems of Beowulf (1833-1837), Ãœber die Stammtafeln der Westsachsen (Munich 1836), Codex diplomaticus aevi Saxonici (London 1839-1848), and in many contributions to reviews; while his History of the Saxons in England (1849; new ed. 1876), though it must now be read with caution, was the first attempt at a thorough examination of the original sources of the early period of English history.


Kemble seems to have been the first to 'correctly interpret' the runes though astonishingly enough the Dream of the Rood was only recently recognised as a masterpiece

In 1840 John Mitchell Kemble had the honour of correctly interpreting the runes and associating them with portions of a recently discovered Anglo-Saxon poem entitled " The Dream of the Holy Rood." Kemble's papers were published in the Archaeologia. Since that day the monument has engaged the attention of many antiquaries, students of English literature, and architects
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Hatty
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His thorough knowledge of the Teutonic languages and his critical faculty were shown in his Anglo-Saxon Poems of Beowulf (1833-1837).

Some (most?) historians appear to believe that Beowulf is the nation's only surviving epic poem "because of the casual destruction of manuscripts".

How does this belief in widespread casual destruction sit with the more or less unanimous view that the (really boring) vernacular literature of homilies, saints' lives and translations from the Scriptures are evidence of the "Englishman's respect for his native learning"?

Anyway, another point arising from yesterday's Bragg discussion of the Vikings in Northumbria is that Danish -- so prevalent that not just towns/villages but hills ['scarr/carr'], streams ['becks'] and the countryside itself ['Fells'] gained Scandinavian names -- disappeared in the twelfth century, which is the same time that Anglo-Saxon vanished. Perhaps the Normans, having acquired French rather quickly, couldn't be bothered to learn Viking
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Mick Harper
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You may wish to join my Anomaly Research Centre. Details here
http://primeval.wikia.com/wiki/Mick_Harper
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Ishmael


In: Toronto
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The Latest Da Vinci Craze.

Da Vinci discovery expected to fetch $16M

Fake or Find?
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Ishmael


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Mick Harper wrote:
You may wish to join my Anomaly Research Centre. Details here
http://primeval.wikia.com/wiki/Mick_Harper


What the hell??? What kind of coincidence is that?!?!
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Mick Harper
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The Latest Da Vinci Craze.
Da Vinci discovery expected to fetch $16M
Fake or Find
?

My money's on fake.

Paris-based auction house Tajan announced the discovery of “The Martyred Saint Sebastian” drawing Monday. This is the first work by da Vinci to be discovered in over 15 years, according to Tajan, which has valued the drawing at $15.8 million.

The market's just about ready for another one. Always tricky with 500-year-old material to know how many years is a decent interval. Fifteen is about right.

The sketch is one of 14 unframed drawings brought into the auction house

Always tricky with 500-year old material to know what a decent number is. Fourteen is about right.

Prate sought a second opinion from independent art dealer Patrick de Bayser

Independent art dealer, eh? I wonder who butters his bread.

who noticed that the drawing was by a left-handed artist (da Vinci was left-handed).

Clinches it. No forger would have known that.

De Bayser also found two small scientific drawings of candlelight on the back of the sheet, accompanied by minute notes, according to the New York Times.

That's the thing about great artists. Whenever they're doodling they always make sure to put something on the back in case somebody wants to know precisely which doodler doodled the doodle.

Tajan then reached out to renowned da Vinci authority Carmen C. Bambach, curator in the Department of Drawings and Prints at the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York, who confirmed the drawing’s authenticity.

Museum curator, eh? Aren't many forgeries get past museum curators.

Bambach believes the drawing is one of three known works associated with what may be a lost painting of St. Sebastian.

Is it lost or isn't it lost? Always a tricky question with a Leonardo. "Darling, have you seen my Leonardo? No, wait, I've got it. It was on the wall all the time. Forget my own head if it wasn't bolted on."

A total of eight works depicting St. Sebastian are mentioned in the Codex Atlanticus, a list of da Vinci’s work compiled by the famous artist, scientist and inventor.

Whodathunk it? The most valuable -- and therefore most valuable to forge -- artist of all time made a list of his own works! Must have kept it up to date for most of his life. Odd thing to do. Even on his deathbed otherwise, you know, one or two of the very last works may not be on the list.

The drawing’s owner does not want his identity revealed, according to Tajan.

I expect the Surete Nationale des Beaux Arts Investigative Branch have his name on file.

Last year experts identified a 500-year-old engraving that may show Leonardo da Vinci playing a musical instrument.

A mis-statement surely. It will certainly be of Leonardo, but not alas by Leonardo.
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Hatty
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Mick Harper wrote:
A total of eight works depicting St. Sebastian are mentioned in the Codex Atlanticus, a list of da Vinci’s work compiled by the famous artist, scientist and inventor.

Whodathunk it? The most valuable -- and therefore most valuable to forge -- artist of all time made a list of his own works! Must have kept it up to date for most of his life. Odd thing to do. Even on his deathbed otherwise, you know, one or two of the very last works may not be on the list.


The Codex was over a thousand pages according to Wiki, but not done by the artist or even by another artist. Leoni, the compiler, is described as a 'Renaissance sculptor and medalist'.
The Codex Atlanticus (Atlantic Codex) is a twelve-volume, bound set of drawings and writings (in Italian language) by Leonardo da Vinci, the largest such set; its name indicates its atlas-like breadth. It comprises 1,119 leaves dating from 1478 to 1519, the contents covering a great variety of subjects, from flight to weaponry to musical instruments and from mathematics to botany. This codex was gathered by the sculptor Pompeo Leoni, son of Leone Leoni, in the late 16th century, who dismembered some of Leonardo's notebooks in its formation. It is currently preserved at the Biblioteca Ambrosiana in Milan..
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Mick Harper
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It is fairly obvious by the confusion about who is doing the compiling that careful ignoral is lurking about.
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Ishmael


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I absolutely love your analysis.

My money too is on fake but for the simple reason that these drawings are obviously in the style of those found in Italy in the Early 20th century---the same ones that depict a bicycle. If those sketches are fakes, then these obvious knock-offs must be as well.

As I've described before, scholars all agree that the bicycle drawing is a forgery, but insist the codex of notes and drawings remain genuine. Their claim is that someone snuck into the library and added in the bicycle as a bit of fun.
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Mick Harper
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Their claim is that someone snuck into the library and added in the bicycle as a bit of fun.

Is that really true? I ask because in the Teeside baby-abuse cases, when guilt was established by any baby having a dilated anus, one baby was fine one day in hospital but had a dilated anus the next morning. The explanation: one of the miscreants snuck into the hospital during the night.

What makes this particularly poignant, if that's the right word, is that the explanation was accepted by Justice Butler-Schloss who was later appointed (aged eighty-something) to lead the National Enquiry being conducted now into all forms of child abuse. She got the push for being the sister of an attorney-general. Not gross judicial incompetence.
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Ishmael


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Mick Harper wrote:
Their claim is that someone snuck into the library and added in the bicycle as a bit of fun.

Is that really true?


This is my understanding. I'm afraid that I lack the time at this specific moment to track down the original sources and confirm. I invite any interested party to do so and re-post.
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Ishmael


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Fake or Find?

Thousand-year-old Bible discovered in Turkey after smugglers tried to sell it to undercover police.
Police inside the central Turkish city of Tokat confiscated the ancient Bible, along with other priceless artifacts, after they caught smugglers red-handed. In 2015 the three men who were trying to sell the Bible that was written in the old Assyriac language have been arrested. Police also seized 53 ancient coins, jewelry, parts of valuable rings, and two arrowheads.
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Mick Harper
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This is an interesting story on a number of levels.

A 1,000-year-old bible was uncovered

These are incredibly rare. There may not be any at all (make of that what you will). This particular one, if genuine will turn out to be many centuries younger.

by police in Turkey after smugglers tried to sell the priceless book to undercover officers.

This points to it being genuine. Professional forgers rarely make this mistake.

Police inside the central Turkish city of Tokat confiscated the ancient Bible, along with other priceless artifacts, after they caught smugglers red-handed. In 2015 the three men who were trying to sell the Bible that was written in the old Assyriac language have been arrested. Police also seized 53 ancient coins, jewelry, parts of valuable rings, and two arrowheads.

Again this points to amateurs, i.e. people who have made a lucky find or a lucky robbery and don't know what to do with it. Interesting that it is now Assyriac -- never seen that version before.

Tokat has appeared in recent years as a center of smuggling activities in uncommon artifacts,

At first this would appear to be because of ISIS activity over the border except ...

a reputation that had been cemented last year with “Orphan Man, Standing”. This was an authentic oil painting by Van Gogh, discovered in the trunk of a vehicle owned by a suspected artifact smuggler.

Doesn't fit at all.

The exciting news of this finding comes as the world’s oldest bible goes on display at London’s British Museum. The exhibit is titled “Egypt: Faith after the Pharaohs” and has 200 objects that trace Egypt’s religious evolution from the country’s integration into the Roman Empire in 30 BC to the descent of the Islamic Fatimid dynasty in the year of 1171. One of the highlights was part of the 4th century Codex Sinaiticus, a book written in Greek on animal skin by monks on the Mount Sinai. This volume contained the oldest complete copy of the New Testament.

We've been down this road.
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