| View previous topic :: View next topic |
Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
|
|
 |
|
|
It's really a French/Qatar Platini organised extravaganza, Beckham is really just token cover. I am expecting Paris St Germain to be the real winners.
|
|
 |
|
 |
|
Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
|
|
|
|
"And what happens if England... or Wales... does well?"
Adrian Chiles on Newsnight, after harangue about not being able to drink at Qatar football stadiums |
This is Chiles, the BBC-man, speaking not Chiles, the West Brom fanatic. Let me remind him: if Wales win the blessed thing and England go out in the prelims, that will not be a case of 'doing well'.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
|
|
|
|
Anyone listening to Gianni Infantino's press conference on the eve of the World Cup would have been monumentally impressed by his transparently sincere words about worker exploitation in Qatar and his demands for equal treatment for all races and sexual orientations there. I even got the impression he is gay himself.
But that doesn't alter the fact that he is as corrupt as my last computer's hard drive.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
|
|
|
|
With the Guardian in Qatar
David Hittner, Barney Ronay, Jonathan Llew and the team with top reporting and analysis from Qatar
Dispatches from Elis James with Wales |
Well, they got that balance right.
| This is not the first world cup to be held under the shadow of totalitarianism |
Look, guys, I know you're only football correspondents but even you ought to know Qatar is not a totalitarian state. North Korea is the only totalitarian state around at the moment, with China and a coupla others verging on it. If the cup were being played in neighbouring Saudi Arabia or Iran then I might have given you a bit of journalistic license, but Qatar? Really?
| ...and a limping England that appear ripe for another spot of navel-gazing angst followed by an early exit |
I know you're middle-aged and burdened by memories, I understand you have to differentiate yourselves from jingo red tops, but this is so-o-o last century. England's current ranking suggests they ought to reach the quarters/maybe the semis. My guess is they will reach the quarters/semis. In your heart-of-hearts you believe England will reach the quarters/semis. So enough already.
| Switzerland and Serbia would both be highly fancied were they not unfortunate to be drawn in the same group as Brazil |
Well, technically, they were unfortunate to get one another in the group since all second and third ranked sides are in this position unless Qatar is your one-seed, and those poor bastards drew Holland as the second seed. And don't forget, unlike everyone else, neither Switzerland nor Serbia will have to play Brazil again until the final. I'd put it as about average, group of death-wise.
You'll soon get into the swing of things, though sex-wise you'd be wise-wise to stick with Marina. This isn't Canonbury.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
|
|
|
|
| Ecuadorian gangs have declared a truce during the opening match when the world will be watching how Ecuador performs against Qatar. Al-Jazeera. |
Asked about half-time, one gang leader said, "You can nick out if you want but we probably won't. It's hardly worth it."
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
|
|
|
|
|
Anthony Yarde. What a boxer. What a man.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
|
|
|
|
First game, and VAR detects an offside that none of the players, crowd, viewers or ref detected, so is totally unintelligble to humans watching or players. It makes no sense, as those who are playing cannot adapt to it.
Still VARists will think it's brilliant coz it's "true" to those who like computer technology, or believe in an ultimate truth. Bonkers.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
|
|
|
|
This is true but unless you can develop an algorithm that defines what is 'totally unintelligible to humans watching or players' you would have to abandon VAR for all offsides. This is a viable position but would you be prepared to put this much toothpaste back in the tube? There is always the halfway house, as used by the NFL, of 'instant replay in the booth' without recourse to geometric aids plus the 'clear and obvious error' rule but, I suspect, this will raise different problems without much solving this one.
If your policy is adopted, there will be rioting in the streets when Kane's toe is shown later to be offside scoring the winner in the England vs Argentina 2022 World Cup final. And that's just in London because we're such good sports.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
|
|
|
|
Everybody -- the players, the media, my dog Roy of the Rangers (he's a Scotch terrier) -- is complaining about 'a lack of atmosphere'. I disagree. We forget, every four years, there is always a lack of atmosphere with no footballing matters to talk about. That is why everyone is always up in arms about the shortcomings of host, venues, weather et al. Remember Russia? Brazil? South Africa? Japan/Korea? Only Germany did it by the numbers, forcing us to concentrate on the shortcomings of WAGS.
It'll be fine once the football starts. (We don't count Ubby Dubby vs an Equatorial XI). Right up until Wales are knocked out and I can give up on the whole folderol, resuming my long walks in the Black Mountains with my Welsh corgi, Roy of the Rhondda. I love seeing whether those little legs will cope. But I'll have Roy with me if I get into any trouble so don't you worry about me. I'm always like this, every four years. I had an imaginary WAG last time.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
|
|
|
|
Here's something I had to look up. "Where is the next world cup being held?"
| The 2026 FIFA World Cup will be jointly hosted by Canada, Mexico and the United States. |
From the insufferably small to the ineffably large. But does that mean Canada, Mexico and the USA will all get free passes into the tournament?
| This tournament will be the first to include 48 teams |
Blimey, even Scotland might squeak it.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
|
|
|
|
| Mick Harper wrote: | This is true but unless you can develop an algorithm that defines what is 'totally unintelligible to humans watching or players' you would have to abandon VAR for all offsides. This is a viable position but would you be prepared to put this much toothpaste back in the tube? There is always the halfway house, as used by the NFL, of 'instant replay in the booth' without recourse to geometric aids plus the 'clear and obvious error' rule but, I suspect, this will raise different problems without much solving this one.
If your policy is adopted, there will be rioting in the streets when Kane's toe is shown later to be offside scoring the winner in the England vs Argentina 2022 World Cup final. And that's just in London because we're such good sports. |
I just want to see the most skilful team win. Actually I lie, I want to see my team win, but that's down to me. You appear to think fairness is more important, so you like VAR, that is a valid argument, you can achieve this by turning the World Cup into a gamers' tournament, perfect officiating at a stroke. I am happy with skilful players and skilled referees, yes they slip up, but that is because they are human, that is the whole point, without error football is a draw. Who wants that?
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
|
|
|
|
| I just want to see the most skilful team win |
Then you should be an advocate of VAR.
| You appear to think fairness is more important, so you like VAR |
I have not revealed my position, only the consequences of yours.
| you can achieve this by turning the World Cup into a gamers' tournament, perfect officiating at a stroke. |
I think you mean games with longueurs to make officiating as perfect as is practically possible at this time.
| I am happy with skilful players and skilled referees, yes they slip up, but that is because they are human, that is the whole point, without error football is a draw. Who wants that? |
It is often impossible for skilled referees to make correct refereeing decisions such is the skill of the players. The choice is between football slightly marred by VAR interventions and football slightly marred by the lottery element of real time refereeing. But to reveal my own position: yes, I prefer the former.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
|
|
|
|
| Wiles wrote: | | I just want to see the most skilful team win |
| Mick wrote: |
Then you should be an advocate of VAR. |
I still think you are confusing fairness, with skill. Are the most skilful players the best at keeping to the rules? Of course not. Does having VAR encourage new footballing skills? The disallowed goal last night surely did not, nobody knew it was an offisde. How does that encourage better footballing skills?
There is something wrong in being fanatical about fairness in football (and a computer judging somebody an inch offside is clearly bonkers!) and that is that you are creating more and more "technical" fouls that only VAR can spot. This will not benefit skilful players. It means that skills switch to those who engineer fouls whilst defenders do nutty things like defending with their hands behind their backs in the penalty area. These are not desirable footballing skills.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
|
|
|
|
| I still think you are confusing fairness with skill. Are the most skilful players the best at keeping to the rules? Of course not. |
Of course they are! Their professional lives depend on it. VAR or no VAR.
| Does having VAR encourage new footballing skills? The disallowed goal last night surely did not, nobody knew it was an offisde. How does that encourage better footballing skills? |
VAR hasn't been around long enough for it to have entered professional footballers' DNA. (Remember what happened to spinners in cricket?) I would imagine that 'keeping on the shoulder of the last defender' might become 'behind the shoulder' but I agree these split-second decisions in broken play are unlikely to have much effect one way or the other.
| There is something wrong in being fanatical about fairness in football (and a computer judging somebody an inch offside is clearly bonkers!) |
Nobody is disagreeing with you, Wiley. It's only that 'an inch offside' is not distinguishable from two inches offside ... or n inches offside. Either it's offside according to VAR or it's offside according to the linesman in real time. You can't have your cake and eat it, you can only choose which cake you want to eat.
| and that is that you are creating more and more "technical" fouls that only VAR can spot. |
Now you're running with a new hare.
| This will not benefit skilful players. It means that skills switch to those who engineer fouls whilst defenders do nutty things like defending with their hands behind their backs in the penalty area. These are not desirable footballing skills. |
I refer you to the point I made some moments ago. The most skilful players exploit the rules that are current at the time. I accept that there have been a number of undesirable consequences of VAR, some of them nutty (strewth, I've written about them enough) but I think you are confusing 'skill' with Grealish-style tricks. Skill is defined as winning football matches with whatever rules are in place when the match is being played. Me, I don't want to go back to the days of Norman Hunter winning matches because of his 'skills'. But I may be running with a new hare here. Hear! Hear!
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
|
|
|
|
| I still think you are confusing fairness, with skill. Are the most skilful players the best at keeping to the rules? Of course not. |
| Mick Harper wrote: | | Of course they are! Their professional lives depend on it. |
There you go again. Gazza? Ok you were not being serious, I get that. Still this obssesion with VAR and fairness has created a whole new set of fouls that are committed non-intentionally, that means that players are trying to learn "non footballing skills" ie skills to stop themselves committing unintentional fouls. Do we really want a game which is decided by free kicks and penalties awarded for "fouls" that were not committed deliberately? Clearly not, the object of the game is to create and score goals from open play. Freekicks and penalties are there to compensate teams that have been deliberately prevented from doing this. You are treating fairness as an end itself, it is not.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
The Library Index 
FAQ 
Search
Register
Profile 
Log in to check your private messages 
Log in 
