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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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Don't knock it, that's how Chad met his wife. She shouldn't have been smoking -- Cheadle Hulme Ladies cricket team are keen as mustard -- but when they both found out they had been picked last at school the violins began to play. Which reminds me, are we completely comfortable with Isa Guha and Phil Tufnell being left alone in the commentary box? Keep your mind on the game, Isa.
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Chad
In: Ramsbottom
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| how do spinners fare batting against other spinners? |
Any ability to read the bowler, is often nullified by their general lack of ability with the bat. They may know where it's going but still can't make clean contact. Though they normally struggle even more against the quicks, where the fear factor comes into play.
| When the batsman nicks a spinner, there is not the slightest possibility of the stood-up wicketkeeper consciously having the time to react to the deviation of the ball. |
Yeah, this is when you see how good a keeper really is. He knows which way the ball is going to move, even before it's been bowled. It's coming at him relatively slowly, and a slight nick will just shift it a bit more, so he can position himself to cover both a miss and a little nick. But...
| Yet it counts as a missed chance if the wicketkeeper doesn't shift the gloves in time to catch the ball. |
If it's a big edge or comes off the glove, then that's a different matter, and the keeper is no longer on his own in that situation... he is just one of a clutch of close in fielders positioned around the bat. A missed chance in those circumstances (unless it's a howler) is simply regarded as the prelude to a kill... like a pack of wolves nipping at their prey.
| Mr "I was always picked last at school and it's left a permanent scar" Chad. |
A little harsh that professor... a little harsh... I often had a rabbit or two behind me.
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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If football is going to be saved, we need to bring back proper grass, sliding tackles, leather balls, and do away with poncy lime green boots.
Talimeren Ao, was India's greatest footballer, he led them out as flag-bearer at the 1948 Olympics. The Indians did not wear boots at all. Arsenal were impressed and offered him a contract but he declined as he wanted to be a doctor. Asked why he did not wear boots, the great man replied.
| In India we play football here you play bootball. | |
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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| Any ability to read the bowler is often nullified by their general lack of ability with the bat. They may know where it's going but still can't make clean contact. |
Your original point was that spinners would "probably do a reasonable job" (as wicketkeepers reading other spinners). You don't need ability to make contact with a slowly bowled ball if you know where it is headed. Spinners clearly do not, at least no more than anyone else, unless you do a proper trial, comparing like with like i.e. spinners and fast bowlers vs spinners, who comes out best?
| Though they normally struggle even more against the quicks, where the fear factor comes into play. |
You don't have to be Stuart Broad or Raymond Illingworth to know that fear is randomly distributed among bowlers (and for that matter among batsmen). It may be that spinners, as natural non-athletes, are more fearful but you'd have to make that case.
| He knows which way the ball is going to move, even before it's been bowled. |
He's God, is he? He's had the Indian sign, has he? However, it is true that the best batsmen have a scientifically tested but as yet not scientifically explained ability to read the path of the ball once it has left the bowler's hand. The variables do not seem to be within the human brain to encompass. However this does not seem to have much to do with the nick question. But maybe it's in the same part of the brain.
| It's coming at him relatively slowly, and a slight nick will just shift it a bit more, so he can position himself to cover both a miss and a little nick. But. |
In that case he would likely miss both nicks and non-nicks. It may seem analogous to the batsman 'playing for the turn' but it would be far too hit and miss for the wicketkeeper, who is expected to catch the ball 100% of the time, to adopt a 'he might nick it' strategy with his gloves permanently not in the optimal position for the 99% of balls that aren't nicked. He is doing something, yes, but not this.
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Chad
In: Ramsbottom
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Hmm... I was listening to him on TMS the other day, discussing the art of fielding. He claimed to have turned himself into a half decent fielder by putting in some hard practice.
I don't recall ever noticing the transformation.
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Chad
In: Ramsbottom
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| He's God, is he? He's had the Indian sign, has he? However, it is true that the best batsmen have a scientifically tested but as yet not scientifically explained ability to read the path of the ball once it has left the bowler's hand. |
The time to pick it is not after it's left the bowler hand, it's when his arm reaches the top of its arc. The angle of the wrist, the position of the fingers, how much of the back of the hand you can see... these all vary depending on the type of delivery that's about to be released.
The batsman may not pick it until it's in flight, but an experienced keeper already knows by then.
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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Unsubstantiated at best. He does though get more exposure than anyone else to this factor. It may account for wicketkeepers being better batsmen than nature dictates. Irrelevant to the nick question though.
| He is doing something, yes, but not this. |
Try this for size. On the ear hearing a noise (which can only be the batsman's bat/body hitting the ball) the wicket-keeper's hands automatically shift to the 'nick position'. If the ball is just being played by the batsman or his leg, the wicketkeeper will not be involved, and won't even be aware his hands moved. But if it is a nick -- the only other possibility -- then the gloves will be ready. Presumably this skill can only be achieved by dint of constant practice by individuals pre-selected on the basis of higher than average auditory powers and faster than average autonomous motor skills. In other words, Alan Knott.
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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| Chad wrote: |
Hmm... I was listening to him on TMS the other day, discussing the art of fielding. He claimed to have turned himself into a half decent fielder by putting in some hard practice.
I don't recall ever noticing the transformation. |
He couldn't bat either, he was worse than Devon Macolm, who had genuine eyesight problems. The only one worse than Tuffers I can find was Kiwi Chris Martin, but he could field.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7wD14oJiPA
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Chad
In: Ramsbottom
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Nah... Whatsisname on Sky did a rather good analysis on the subject, during the first test.
I have... and it fits perfectly... Thank you professor.
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Chad
In: Ramsbottom
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| He couldn't bat either, he was worse than Devon Macolm, who had genuine eyesight problems. The only one worse than Tuffers I can find was Kiwi Chris Martin, but he could field. |
Courtney Walsh was my favourite number 11. Great entertainment value.
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Chad
In: Ramsbottom
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Can't wait for his upcoming podcast where Tuffers explains how, by dedicated application, he turned himself into a half decent batsman.
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Chad
In: Ramsbottom
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| There's no sign of play any time soon. |
If only they had remained in Manchester... we wouldn't have lost a single moment's play.
Ironic or what?
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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I'm not surprised Serge Gnabry beat Barcelona 8-2. When he got dropped from our squad for the midweek North Circular Cup we said to him, "Listen, Serge, you've got a bit of talent, why not go abroad and see if you can find somewhere you can fit in." He took our advice and I remember us all seeing him off at Victoria Coach station singing
You're a Gnabry
Spelled G-N-A-B-R-Y
You probably didn't know
Why off you had to go
At Arsenal you never g-know g-why.
I left myself for Real Madrid soon after and lost touch. A great squad that was. 8-2 over Barcelona? Try Serge scoring the winner in a five goal tussle with Harrow and Wealdstone. You mark my words, there are some things that will stay with him forever.
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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| If only they had remained in Manchester... we wouldn't have lost a single moment's play. |
Since there's no crowd, why not play the series in Dubai?
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Chad
In: Ramsbottom
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The results count towards the ICC World Test Championship. England would not want to give up the advantage of bowling in home conditions. Bowlers on average are 12% better on home turf.
But the difference is even greater for English seamers. Anderson’s economy rate is similar home and away, but his strike rate, of a wicket for every 50 balls at home, becomes a wicket for every 70 away. Broad is similar.
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