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Pole Shifting (Geophysics)
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Ishmael


In: Toronto
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How can this be anything but the City of Atlantis?

The Lost City of Atlantis - Hidden in Plain Sight - Advanced Ancient Human Civilization
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N R Scott


In: Middlesbrough
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I would suspect that the entire story of Atlantis is less than 500 years old. It's just a pagan/humanist retelling of the Biblical flood story - man becomes arrogant, so god destroys his world.

The word Atlantis is just a Latin version of the word atlas. It just means "the world" or the mapped (known) world. Map collections used to have titles such as "Atlantis Majoris" - just meaning major atlas.


How could people not have made a connection between this usage of the term "atlantis" and Plato's version at the time?

This is also why we have the figure of Atlas holding up the "world". Again just suggesting that the word atlas means world. It's also probably why we have the Atlantic, which originally was just the "world" ocean, surrounding the known continents.

It's quite ironic that everyone's looking for something that has a very name which implies it has already been mapped.
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Mick Harper
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I have been in contact recently with two 'fans' of mine (yes, they do exist) both of whom are also fans of the Worldwide Flood Myths thesis, so I'd like to place on record my own view of this. It's a bunch o' bollocks.

The origin (of the belief) is of course an AE matter. We were all brought up on Noah's Ark and despite learning to reject all the other Judaeo-Christian mullarkey, this has somehow lodged in all our heads. So we're suckers for any old "They wouldn't just make it up, would they?" theory. Well, they did make up Noah's Ark because we know enough about physical geography to understand that if it rains for forty days and forty nights, the world doesn't disappear underwater. You might build an ark if it happened in your neck of the woods but that's about as significant as it gets.

Ditto Mesopotamia, Amerindians, Aborigines and Siberians. Not that, with the exception of the first, these people are actually handing down folk myths of a Great Inundation Long Ago. They are handing anthropologists stories about floods and how you deal with them. It's a common enough problem. Unfortunately the anthropologists were not only themselves brought up on Noah's Ark, they have an intense professional interest in bringing their wards to the world's attention. What better way than to evoke the world's premier folk myth and tailoring what they've been told accordingly?
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Mick Harper
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Terrific Youtube by the way, Ishmael.
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Ishmael


In: Toronto
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N R Scott wrote:
The word Atlantis is just a Latin version of the word atlas.


Yes. And guess the name of the mountains just north of the eye of the Sahara. Yup. The Atlas Mountains.

I think you may have reversed cause and effect. The Atlantians were the first to map the globe---hence the name Atlas.
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Ishmael


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N R Scott wrote:
I would suspect that the entire story of Atlantis is less than 500 years old.


I share your suspicions.

But then, I also suspect the Ice Age ended only about 500 years ago.
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Ishmael


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Mick Harper wrote:
Well, they did make up Noah's Ark because we know enough about physical geography to understand that if it rains for forty days and forty nights, the world doesn't disappear underwater.


I'm surprised at you Mick. The originator of SLOP!

On the other hand, I alone know with practical certainty that the world did indeed flood. And likely not so long ago. How do I know? Because the facts I have uncovered make inevitable a globe-spanning tidal wave of colossal proportion.
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N R Scott


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Ishmael wrote:
The Atlantians were the first to map the globe---hence the name Atlas.

Apparently the Greek writer Diodorus claimed that King Atlas, the first king of Atlantis, was the first to discover the spherical nature of the stars and the first to propose that the Earth was a globe.

Again though, like Atlantis, I think this is also something where the dating is completely wrong. I think the idea of a spherical Earth only came after the Portuguese sailed past the equator and rounded Africa. In older books it's said that the Portuguese sailors feared they would burn if they sailed too far south as they believed it just got increasingly hot. The Arabs had a similar worldview. Some medieval Arabic maps show the world divided into climatic bands, where everything is in between the two extremes of polar north and scorching south.

People assume that the Earth is self-evidently round. However, if you live in the northern hemisphere and have no knowledge of the southern star rotation. Or have never experienced the climate getting increasingly cold after you sail past the equator, then the idea would never occur to you. Experiencing both those things would have been a world-changing revelation to the Portuguese sailors experiencing them for the first time.

This is probably why the Galileo/Copernicus heresy was such a huge deal, and why people like Giordano Bruno were burnt at the stake. It wasn't just the substitution of one model of balls spinning in space for another. It was a fundamental shift from flat earth worldview to spherical earth worldview.

In the geocentric model it doesn't really matter what shape the Earth is (especially if you've only explored Europe, parts of Asia and north Africa - and only seen the northern night sky). With geocentrism the Earth is something separate and completely different to what's up in the sky. It's only when you move to the Heliocentric model that the Earth has to be the same as everything else up there.

This is also probably why if you look at art globes became fashionable during the age of exploration. It's also probably why all the world's religions from China and India to Europe have flat earth worldviews. If you ignore the Greek texts (or adjust their dating) then the whole thing is completely recent. Relatively speaking.
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Hatty
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Wouldn't the argument against a 'flat-earth' view be that from a high viewpoint the curvature is visible?

But it ties in with meridians and earthworks or navigational markers (if that's what they were). With a short distance, you find an exact line, e.g. the tidal causewayed islands of St Michael's Mount and St Ives are exactly north-south, but when tracing a long distance line, say Chad's Meridian between the North Pole and the island of Tarifa, the megalithic features are often close to but not exactly on it. The curvature of the earth could be the reason.
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N R Scott


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Hatty wrote:
Wouldn't the argument against a 'flat-earth' view be that from a high viewpoint the curvature is visible?

It's effectively impossible to see the curvature no matter how high up you go as the horizon always rises to eye level. For example, if I'm high up in the North Yorkshire hills when I view the North Sea in the distance it always comes up to my eye level no matter how high I go. Even from an aeroplane window it will look level.

It's surprisingly difficult to prove one way or another what shape the Earth is just going from first principles and ground observation/measurements. This is why I think it would have been incredibly difficult to get someone to believe they lived on a sphere before the age of exploration as the idea is so counterintuitive.
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Mick Harper
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Well, they did make up Noah's Ark because we know enough about physical geography to understand that if it rains for forty days and forty nights, the world doesn't disappear underwater.

I'm surprised at you Mick. The originator of SLOP!

I don't see why. SLOP does indeed require worldwide floods from time to time but it isn't rain that causes the cataclysm and it certainly didn't happen in Noah's time frame.

On the other hand, I alone know with practical certainty that the world did indeed flood. And likely not so long ago. How do I know? Because the facts I have uncovered make inevitable a globe-spanning tidal wave of colossal proportion.

Well, as the originator of SLOP, more power to your elbow. That should make people sit up and listen. Though possibly not me.
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Mick Harper
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I agree that a flat earth at the centre of the universe is an entirely proper world view pre c 1500 AD. I also agree that theories to the contrary before c 1500 AD are both equivocal and possibly bogus. But I disagree with this

With a short distance, you find an exact line, e.g. the tidal causewayed islands of St Michael's Mount and St Ives are exactly north-south, but when tracing a long distance line, say Chad's Meridian between the North Pole and the island of Tarifa, the megalithic features are often close to but not exactly on it. The curvature of the earth could be the reason.

A meridian is not affected by the curvature of the earth. It's just north/south whether on a sphere or a flat plain. Places will be 'off the line' for reasons other than trying to plot a straight line on a curved sphere. However an east-west line of any length, say the Michael Line from Norfolk to Cornwall, is affected. This may be the reason for Megalithic interest in meridians but exactly why and how I do not know.

Interestingly this continued after 1500 when it was fairly easy to plot north-south positions by stellar observation but not east-west ones without an accurate time piece.
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Ishmael


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Mick Harper wrote:
SLOP does indeed require worldwide floods from time to time but it isn't rain that causes the cataclysm and it certainly didn't happen in Noah's time frame.


Oh? Sure of both time frames are we?

And Noah's Flood was a consequence not just of the rainfall but of the opening of the "fountains of the earth."
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