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Mega-Talk (Megalithic)
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Wile E. Coyote


In: Arizona
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man who bought stonehenge wrote:
“Stonehenge is perhaps the best known and the most interesting of our national monuments and has always appealed strongly to the British imagination. To me, who was born close to it and during my boyhood and youth visited it at all hours of the day and night, under every conceivable condition of weather — in driving tempests of hail, rain and snow, fierce thunderstorms, glorious moonlight and beautiful sunshine, it always has had an inexpressible charm. I became owner of it with a deep sense of pleasure, and had contemplated that it might remain a cherished possession of my family for long years to come. It has, however, been pressed upon me that the nation would like to have it for its own, and would prize it most highly.”


Quite, it was formed by the "British Imagination" not "English Imagination" but "British," the idea occurs in Geoffrey of Monmouth, "De gestis Britonum or Historia Regum Britanniae" (I won't say originally, as Geoff borrowed, as well as made it up, and could anyway be an amalgamation of authors). From this we know according to Geoffrey, the circle of stones known as Stonehenge was created by Merlin, the wizard of Arthurian legend, who magically transported the massive stones from Ireland, where giants had assembled them.

Somwhat mysteriously to academia and despite his academic reputation now being in tatters, we now know that Geoffrey was RIGHT, blue stones were transported from Wales as the creators of the newly imagined British stone henge wanted to create a British monument so needed to augment the local sarsens, ie probably coming from Marlborough Downs.

It is blindingly obvious to Wiley that the blue stones were moved at the time or after of "Geoffrey" as he was in the know, and this was done to boost his whole widely popular Arthurian mythology. The ancient local sarsen monument was recreated, probably in the sixteenth century, with the addition of added blue stones to give it a miraculous national, ie British, aspect.

The mistake of the archaeologists is to think that the blue stones were moved at the time of Stonehenge, they have now worked out that they might have come from a Welsh henge, as well as quarried in Wales. They fail to see when they were moved. The fact is, prior to the sixteenth century there were two circles, one in Wales, one in Wiltshire. The genius was to create a British monument, and mythology, by moving the bluestones from a henge in Wales to Wiltshire.
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Wile E. Coyote


In: Arizona
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Stonehenge had been held in private ownership since 1540 when King Henry VIII had forced it be turned over from a Benedictine abbey who had laid claim to it.


Right, didn't Geoffrey spend time in a Benedictine monastry? The whole thing has a whiff to it. It's part of the need to show a Henry lineage.
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Wile E. Coyote


In: Arizona
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You have to hand it to em, until Wiley worked it out, things had worked out just brilliantly for 500 odd years.
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Mick Harper
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In: London
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It is customary to allow others to blow your trumpet, Wiley. So I will give you a provisional toot.

But explain why they didn't get the sarsens from Ireland if they wanted to toot Geoffrey's trumpet. And how come they got them from Wales since nobody knew they were from Wales until the twentieth century (if they are).
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Wile E. Coyote


In: Arizona
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The sarsens are local to Stonehenge, you don't move megaliths long distances unless you have a reason. The idea was to create a new ancient national monument out of Welsh (they are from Preseli) bluestones and local sarsens. The mythos of this was Arthurian. Folks believed the mythos. The fact that there were no blue stones locally just proved the mythos was correct. Because some of the stones (the blue ones) had an origin outside of the locality (and local masons could confirm this), it was a national monument.
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Wile E. Coyote


In: Arizona
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"Geoffry" and "Merlin" created this future masterpiece.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiML7w3UAqY
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Hatty
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In: Berkshire
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Wile E. Coyote wrote:
The whole thing has a whiff to it. It's part of the need to show a Henry lineage.

The Tudors were famously Welsh as well as usurpers. Makes a lot of sense, we've been talking about known and suspected Tudor forgeries for a while now.

Producing 'ancient' history was hardly novel but doing it with megaliths is of a different order. Fortunately Henry had a pool of diligent antiquarians such as Leland, 'the father of English history and bibliography', to hand.
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Wile E. Coyote


In: Arizona
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Hatty wrote:
Producing 'ancient' history was hardly novel but doing it with megaliths is of a different order.


It seems more likely to Wiles that the stones were moved in the era 1500-1600 AD rather than say 2500 BC, I mean they are damn heavy. By then you do have evidence of ships up to the task.
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Mick Harper
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Unlike the team of archaeological reconstructors loading a sarsen onto a wooden dugout to test the Out of Preseli theory and which sank in Milford Haven. "Down a bit, number one."
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Wile E. Coyote


In: Arizona
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Hats wrote:
Producing 'ancient' history was hardly novel but doing it with megaliths is of a different order.


I suppose so, but on his travels Leland was suppossedly able to visit "Arthurian" sites, including "his tomb" at Glastonbury Abbey and he also saw Gerald of Wales "De principis instructione" which purports to contain precise details of Arthur's disinternment before being placed in the Abbey.

At face value these are useful finds as Arthur according to Geoffrey of Monmouth had established a British (sic) Empire independent of foreign powers and the papacy, and Henry and his circle of advisors were increasingly convinced that an examination of ancient manuscripts helped their stand against Rome.

Is it so strange that there was a longing for the scripts, the bones and the monuments to tie up? In fact, wasn't that Leland's real job?
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Wile E. Coyote


In: Arizona
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Folks in the past were not as scriptocentric as modern historians.
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Wile E. Coyote


In: Arizona
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Later folks have imagined and forged the earlier stuff.

Going backwards. Britain creates Wessex which later creates our understanding of a British neolithic centred in Wessex.......

https://www.hiddenhistory.co.uk/destinations/britain-stonehenge-and-wessex/

It's the cradle.
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Mick Harper
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Many people assume Thomas Hardy was writing about contemporary life when in fact he was writing historical novels. (1840-1928)
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Wile E. Coyote


In: Arizona
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“The King…spoke to him about the monument which he was planning. ‘If you want to grace the burial-place of these men with some lasting monument,’ replied Merlin, ‘send for the Giants’ Ring which is on Mount Killaraus in Ireland. In that place there is a stone construction which no man of this period could ever erect, unless he combined great skill and artistry. The stones are enormous and there is no one alive strong enough to move them. If they are placed in position round this site, in the way in which they are erected over there, they will stand for ever."


What strikes Wiley as interesting is that you already had a very good "Ring" in Wiltshire. But the English sent out 15,000 men to secure the stones from Ireland. This also struck the Irish as strange.........

“‘I am not surprised that a race of cowards has been able to devastate the island of the Britons,’ said he, ‘for the Britons are dolts and fools. Who ever heard of such folly? Surely the stones of Ireland aren’t so much better than those of Britain that our realm has to be invaded for their sake! Arm yourselves, men, and defend your fatherland, for as long as life remains in my body they shall not steal from us the minutest fragment of the Ring.'”


Quite. The English had a decent stone circle already. Didnt they? The Irish seemed to think so.

“Aurelius ordered Merlin to erect round the burial place the stones which he had brought from Ireland. Merlin obeyed the King’s orders and put the stones up in a circle round the sepulchre, in exactly the same way as they had been arranged on Mount Killaraus in Ireland, thus proving that his artistry was worth more than any brute strength.”


Aha its not just the specific stones but the specific Irish arrangement (created by Merlins artistry) Only it turns out the stones are not actually Irish !

“Many years ago the Giants transported them from the remotest confines of Africa and set them up in Ireland at a time when they inhabited that country.”


Its circular thinking, the civilised central cradle, had to import the stones from the majical periphery inhabited by giants. Local stones would not suffice to justify the position of being the new giants. You have to have two different types together, in a specfic arrangemnt, that melded the two traditions. It is conceptually the Flaminio Obelisk brought from Heliopolis by Augustus, it is the spina to the circus. (the linear/lineage to the circular)....Only this time it is magical African stones seized by King Ambrosium Aurelianus (uncle of King Arthur).
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Mick Harper
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It would help, Wiley, if you provided a timeline of (real) events as you envisage them.
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