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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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Basically we are rejecting linear history....(we flip each coin) causing it to spin (circle) through time and space.
Maybe because phase 1 of COIN went badly ie folks liked the historical anecdotes, (legends associated with coins) which I thought they would deconstruct as myth.....
Phase 2 spinning time and place with the material evidence hasn't garnered much feedback. Still thanks to those who have battled through it, along with Castles in the Air, and Hero.....
Time and Place were circular. Historians have rearranged time to become more linear, whilst place has largely been left alone, ie ancient folks go on incredible travels
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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Dukljan or Dukljanin (Serbian pronunciation: [dûkʎanin]) is a figure in Serbian mythology[1] that is a reflection of the Roman emperor Diocletian.[1] He is presented as the adversary of God,[1] possibly because of the real Diocletian's persecution of Christians.[2]
Legends attribute to him building of the town of Duklja,[1] Dukljan's border,[1] and the Roman milestones near Tuzi (according to a folktale, he was throwing them at his brother and sister as they were fleeing to Hum).[1]
A Serbian folk song about Dukljan says that he once removed the Sun from the sky and brought it to the Earth.[1] Saint John managed to trick him and restore the Sun, but afterwards, while chasing him, Dukljan grabbed at him and tore a piece of flesh from John's foot, which explains why humans have arches of the foot.[1]
Several variants of a story that he is still alive exist; according to them he is chained in the MoraÄa river near Duklja (the Vizier's bridge).[1] In some of them, he constantly gnaws at his chains, and each year around Christmas (or around ÄurÄ‘evdan) nearly manages to break free and destroy the world, when four Gypsy blacksmiths reforge the chains.[1] |
The Serbian version.
CF Sun God, Head over heels.
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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| Ishmael wrote: | | Ishmael wrote: | | John means "one" or first. Does this mean he is the first Jesus? |
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There is more than one John in the bible. We are taking a more holistic view. Still let's take a look at the Baptist.
| Saint John managed to trick him and restore the Sun, but afterwards, while chasing him, Dukljan grabbed at him and tore a piece of flesh from John's foot, which explains why humans have arches of the foot |
| According to the New Testament, John anticipated a messianic figure greater than himself.[28] Christians commonly refer to John as the precursor or forerunner of Jesus,[29] since John announces Jesus' coming. John is also identified with the prophet Elijah |
John unlike most Saints has his date of Birth celebrated as well as his date of death.
24 June – Nativity of Saint John the Baptist
29 August – Beheading of Saint John the Baptist
You might note that John is born 6 monthes (moons) before Jesus.
Midsummer, also known as St John's Day, is the period of time centered upon the summer solstice, and more specifically the northern European celebrations that accompany the actual solstice or take place on a day between June 19 and June 25 and the preceding evening. The exact dates vary between different cultures. The Christian Church designated June 24 as the feast day of the early Christian martyr St John the Baptist, and the observance of St John's Day begins the evening before, known as St John's Eve |
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midsummer
Within COIN.... John Jesus exist in a circular relationship. They both represent a solstice.
John the common hardship of winter (a less hot sun) Jesus (a hotter sun) the special royal abundance of summer.
John and Jesus (Common "Little" John and Royal Robin Hood) meet at a river crossing The Cross
Baptism occurs to stop the summer sun overheating.
Both John and Jesus battle the devil within circular time and place. However they are not the same.
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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| You might note that John is born 6 months (moons) before Jesus. |
We mention this in The Megalithic Empire which I am currently reading after a gap of some years. It's awfully good, if incomprehensible.
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Ishmael
In: Toronto
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| Wile E. Coyote wrote: | | [You might note that John is born 6 monthes (moons) before Jesus. |
This must be the key to the whole puzzle.
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Ishmael
In: Toronto
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| Mick Harper wrote: | | We mention this in The Megalithic Empire which I am currently reading after a gap of some years. It's awfully good, if incomprehensible. |
Yes! It needed two or three or four major re-writes. With chapters arranged to make a progressive argument, with each chapter having a single theme.
I've wondered actually if you and Hatty might take some of the same material and try a re-do. Add in new material. Re-arrange the old into more firmly-stated thesis. Give the new book a brand new title.
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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| Ishmael wrote: | | Wile E. Coyote wrote: | | [You might note that John is born 6 monthes (moons) before Jesus. |
This must be the key to the whole puzzle. |
| Hatty wrote: |
This duality brings us neatly to Janus, the two-faced god of beginnings and endings, entrances and exits, who could see into the past and the future and after whom the month of January is named. It's been argued that he is the Roman equivalent of Anu, the Sumerian sky-god, whose consort was possibly Inanna (or Ishtar). January was the start of the Roman new year yet it was not until the sixteenth century that 1st January officially became once more the first day of the year in Europe.
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| Wiki wrote: | Solar god theory
According to Macrobius who cites Nigidius Figulus and Cicero, Janus and Jana (Diana) are a pair of divinities, worshipped as Apollo or the sun and moon, whence Janus received sacrifices before all the others, because through him is apparent the way of access to the desired deity.[47]
A similar solar interpretation has been offered by A. Audin who interprets the god as the issue of a long process of development, starting with the Sumeric cultures, from the two solar pillars located on the eastern side of temples, each of them marking the direction of the rising sun at the dates of the two solstices: the southeastern corresponding to the Winter and the northeastern to the Summer solstice. These two pillars would be at the origin of the theology of the divine twins, one of whom is mortal (related to the NE pillar, as confining with the region where the sun does not shine) and the other is immortal (related to the SE pillar and the region where the sun always shines). Later these iconographic models evolved in the Middle East and Egypt into a single column representing two torsos and finally a single body with two heads looking at opposite directions.[48]
Numa in his regulation of the Roman calendar called the first month Januarius after Janus, according to tradition considered the highest divinity at the time. |
John=Janus
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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| Mick Harper wrote: | | We mention this in The Megalithic Empire which I am currently reading after a gap of some years. It's awfully good, if incomprehensible. |
Wiley tries to add references to ME but sometimes I forget what was in there. Sometimes I get confused with what was previously posted on Walking Amidst Ancient Landscapes. Coin really came about after looking at coin evidence and so called proto currencies, if I miss a key idea mentioned in ME point it out and I will pursue it.
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Ishmael
In: Toronto
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John=Janus=Johannes=Johannes Kepler.
One of the things I noticed early on in my research of astrophysics was how many men named "John" were associated with the origins of Astronomy. There is something very weird going in History. Including scientific History.
| A similar solar interpretation has been offered by A. Audin who interprets the god as the issue of a long process of development, starting with the Sumeric cultures, from the two solar pillars located on the eastern side of temples |
This accords with my suspicions regarding St. Peter's Square. It has been my suspicion that the central obelisk points to pillars on the basilica on key dates.
If it doesn't---it should! Such that it would be odd that it didn't!
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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| if I miss a key idea mentioned in ME point it out and I will pursue it. |
I am only John the Baptist to your Jesus.
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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Let's take another quick look at Megalithic Jack.
Jack is a young, poor boy living with his widowed mother and a dairy cow, on a farm cottage. The cow's milk was their only source of income. When the cow stops giving milk, Jack's mother tells him to take her to the market to be sold. On the way, Jack meets a bean dealer who offers magic beans in exchange for the cow, and Jack makes the trade. When he arrives home without any money, his mother becomes angry and disenchanted, throws the beans on the ground, and sends Jack to bed without dinner.
During the night, the magic beans cause a gigantic beanstalk to grow outside Jack's window. The next morning, Jack climbs the beanstalk to a land high in the sky. He finds an enormous castle and sneaks in. Soon after, the castle's owner, a giant, returns home. He senses that Jack is nearby by smell, and speaks a rhyme:
Fee-fi-fo-fum!
I smell the blood of an English man:
Be he alive, or be he dead,
I'll grind his bones to make my bread.
In the versions in which the giant's wife (the giantess) features, she persuades him that he is mistaken. When the giant falls asleep. Jack steals a bag of gold coins and makes his escape down the beanstalk.
Jack climbs the beanstalk twice more. He learns of other treasures and steals them when the giant sleeps: first a goose that lays golden eggs, then a magic harp that plays by itself. The giant wakes when Jack leaves the house with the harp and chases Jack down the beanstalk. Jack calls to his mother for an axe and before the giant reaches the ground, cuts down the beanstalk, causing the giant to fall to his death.
Jack and his mother live happily ever after with the riches that Jack acquired. |
Jack represents the "common" winter sun......gold discs and the harp represents the "abundant summer sun". Notice Jack's ascent and descent, he is rising and setting.
Jack (gambles with the devil) rescues the Summer sun.
The story does not make sense in the context of a christian morality but does in terms of cycles.
Don't believe me?
Jack o' Lent was a tradition in England in the 15th, 16th and 17th centuries involving the abuse and burning of a straw effigy during the season of Lent, ending with its burning on Palm Sunday.
The effigy, made of straw or stuffed clothes,[1] was abused and stoned on Ash Wednesday while being dragged about the parish. The figure was kept until Palm Sunday, when it was burnt. Its burning was often believed to be a symbolic revenge on Judas Iscariot, who had betrayed Christ. It is equally likely that the figure represented the hated winter and its destruction prepares the way for spring.[2]
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Jack O Lantern
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack-o%27-lantern
Jack Frost.........
| Megalithic Empire wrote: wrote: |
Jack O Kent, for instance was a famous wizard responsible for throwing immoveable stones around the Welsh border. but also finding himself entombed in various church walls, a common fate for standing stones.
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This is happening by chance these stones presumably have a solar explanation. (until prove otherwise)
| A similar solar interpretation has been offered by A. Audin who interprets the god as the issue of a long process of development, starting with the Sumeric cultures, from the two solar pillars located on the eastern side of temples |
So why did Jack and Jill climb that hill? Rises and falls and breaks his crown...
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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Boreades
In: finity and beyond
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Coins are back in the news, with a Brexit twist.
A rare coin issued by a Roman emperor who reigned over Britain 1,700 years ago has sold for almost £10,000 ($14,000) at auction. The silver Denarius coin was unearthed by 62-year-old gardener Richard Patterson in Winchester, Hampshire.
It was minted during the reign of Carausius, who is known as the 'first Brexiteer' because he won independence from Europe during the seven years he ruled Britain in the 3rd century AD.
The renegade emperor was born in what is now Belgium and rose through the ranks of the Roman navy to command a fleet tasked with eliminating pirates in the English Channel. ... he declared himself emperor of Britain with the support of his fleet and the locally-based Roman legions. He defeated a Roman invasion and minted his own coins. During his seven years leading Britain he held the Secular Games, a forerunner for the Olympic Games.
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And what good did it all do him?
| His rule came to a bloody end when he was assassinated in 293 on the orders of his own Chancellor of the Exchequer who had been colluding with Rome all along. |
Sounds familiar?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5440027/Rare-silver-coin-issued-rebel-emperor-sold-10-000.html
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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| Boreades wrote: | Coins are back in the news, with a Brexit twist.
A rare coin issued by a Roman emperor who reigned over Britain 1,700 years ago has sold for almost £10,000 ($14,000) at auction. The silver Denarius coin was unearthed by 62-year-old gardener Richard Patterson in Winchester, Hampshire.
It was minted during the reign of Carausius, who is known as the 'first Brexiteer' because he won independence from Europe during the seven years he ruled Britain in the 3rd century AD.
The renegade emperor was born in what is now Belgium and rose through the ranks of the Roman navy to command a fleet tasked with eliminating pirates in the English Channel. ... he declared himself emperor of Britain with the support of his fleet and the locally-based Roman legions. He defeated a Roman invasion and minted his own coins. During his seven years leading Britain he held the Secular Games, a forerunner for the Olympic Games.
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And what good did it all do him?
| His rule came to a bloody end when he was assassinated in 293 on the orders of his own Chancellor of the Exchequer who had been colluding with Rome all along. |
Sounds familiar?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5440027/Rare-silver-coin-issued-rebel-emperor-sold-10-000.html |
It all sounds very exciting, we don't actually know the full name of Allectus, (Carausius we think we know from abbreviations on coins) he was a Marcus Aurelius (as were virtually all) We don't know where they were born or who their parents were... their histories stem from a presumed lost imperial record.......
I don't want you lot confusing this Carausisus pirate chappie with the chappie buried here in the 5th century. Heaven forbid.
https://thejournalofantiquities.com/tag/inscribed-stones-at-penmachno-in-wales/
See how they neatly solve this dating conundrum by the neat device of "gravestone recalling Carausius"
"Here lies Carausius in this heap of stones." (or not) .
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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We mention this in The Megalithic Empire which I am currently reading after a gap of some years. It's awfully good, if incomprehensible.
Yes! It needed two or three or four major re-writes.
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As Hatty is my witness, it got three or four major re-writes.
| With chapters arranged to make a progressive argument, with each chapter having a single theme. |
Yes, I noticed this on re-reading. The problem was that, at the time, neither of us was particularly interested in or knowledgeable about megalithic material so we didn’t really know where we were going. By the time we did, it would have resulted not in a re-write but a re-everything. As you have noticed with your SLOT material (or as I like to call it, my SLOT material) you either have to call a halt and go with what you’ve got or (as Boreades is currently finding out) you never go at all.
| I've wondered actually if you and Hatty might take some of the same material and try a re-do. Add in new material. Re-arrange the old into more firmly-stated thesis. Give the new book a brand new title. |
No chance. However, my/our interest having been revived lately for various reasons, we might be inclined to shift media and make a film/illustrated talk(s) about not only Megalithic Empire material (suitably re-organised) but, because I never re-visit, widened out to embrace all the sea-based material we—meaning everyone not just the two of us—came up with over on the Megalithic Empire forum. Which for some reason you never contribute to.
But, as always with the future, we shall see.
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