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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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History
| Cassius Dio wrote: | | Hadrian travelled through one province after another, visiting the various regions and cities and inspecting garrisons and forts |
Coin
This is a sestertia is of a type called "Exercitus" (military?) which all feature Hadrian and the troops, this one is issued after 134 but the inscription "Britannicus" shows it depicts Hadrian inspecting the troops in Britain (Hadrian came in 122 AD). The troops hold a standard, a legionary eagle and a shield.
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Hatty
Site Admin
In: Berkshire
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It turns out that Cnut coins are quite rare and at least some types of Cnut coins -- twenty types in all -- may have to be re-classified as 'Continental'
Long as the reign of Cnut was, extending from A.D. 1016 to 1035, the large number of types of coins ascribed to it in the standard works on the subject does not appear to be justified by the practice or exigencies of the time, or, on close analysis, by the coins themselves.
The reason for the multiplicity of types of Cnut rests, in great measure, on the fact that some issues properly belonging to Cnut's extensive Continental dominions have been incorporated in the Anglo-Saxon series, mainly owing to the importation, on some of them, of the Anglian title which, in reality, carries no significance, since England was Cnut's principal country, and his Continental issues were mainly based on Anglo-Saxon types. It follows, therefore, that the Anglian title might appropriately appear on coins issued for circulation in Cnut's other territories. In actual fact, the coins of Denmark of the time disclose both the Anglian title and the Danish title, separately and in conjunction. |
It seems to be not so easy to distinguish between Anglo-Saxon and Danish coins, e.g. Cnut coins with the mint-name 'Lund' which is now thought to be Lund in East Denmark rather than 'Lundon' as previously claimed.
| The obverses are barbarous and unintelligible, and this alone points to a foreign source of issue. |
The coins' incomprehensibility suggests 'not made in England' and one of the coin types, formerly ascribed to Ryburgh in Norfolk, is now thought to have been minted in Ribe, Denmark. The large number (thousands) of coins of Aethelred II that continued to be minted during Cnut's reign is even more incomprehensible in view of Cnut's reported animosity towards his predecessor.
There's further confusion with 'hybrid imitations' in both England and Denmark, though who is copying whom is uncertain, but the other problem is 'Which Cnut?'
It is of the type and module of the coins of Cnut the Holy, King of Denmark, A.D. 1080-6. One of exactly similar designs is illustrated in Hauberg,4 with an obverse reading of +CNV T REX DANOR and a reverse inscription of + ODBIORNI L = Odbiorn in Lund.
Another penny of Cnut the Holy is illustrated in the Montagu Sale Catalogue, Part II, Plate I, No. 47. It is identical in type and inscriptions with Hauberg, Plate XI, No. 2, and was undoubtedly issued in Lund in East Denmark and not London in England. |
Cnut 'the Holy' = Canute IV of Denmark (1042-86), saint/ martyr/and patron saint of Denmark since 1101. He had 'designs on the English throne' which were cut short as according to legend (in the shape of 'Elnoth of Canterbury') he was killed kneeling in St Alban church in Odense by a lance thrust to the side
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Hatty
Site Admin
In: Berkshire
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Consulting R.D. Penhallirick whose overview of prehistoric tin is a mine of erudition, he has, no doubt unintentionally, raised questions about 'Saxon silver'
The most impressive discovery in a tin stream is the hoard of Saxon silver now in the British Museum... It is certainly an unexpected find in Celtic Cornwall. The discovery was first made known in the Society of Antiquaries by Philip Rashleigh of Menabilly on 8 May 1788.
The objects had been found by tinners in a streamwork near St Austell on land belonging to John Rashleigh of Penquite |
Landowner John Rashleigh happens to be brother to Philip, "Cornwall's most famous antiquary and mineralogist"
| Philip Rashleigh III (28 December 1729 – 26 June 1811) of Menabilly, Cornwall, was an antiquary and Fellow of the Royal Society and a Cornish squire. He collected and published the Trewhiddle Hoard of Anglo-Saxon treasure, which still gives its name to the "Trewhiddle style" of 9th century decoration. |
This Trewhiddle Hoard consisted of 114 Anglo-Saxon coins apparently. I say 'apparently' because Penhallirick says (and Wiki agrees) all the coins bar two mysteriously vanished.
| The hoard contained 114 coins only two of which survive... One of the survivors is a previously unrecorded silver penny of Ethelwulf struck at Canterbury by the moneyer W.F.A. The other, a coin of Coelwulf, shows that the hoard cannot have been deposited before 874. |
Eh? This single "Coelwulf coin" determines how the other 112 lost coins are dated? It is mind-bogglingly bogus.
But it wasn't just coins that disappeared
| The metalwork is of outstanding artistic merit and contained a gold filigree pendant lost with three other objects before 1866 |
The objects gave rise to a new category of Anglo-Saxon metalwork, the Trewhiddle Style...'an art form in which the silver relief is set against a black composition known as niello'
| The artefacts were originally collected by Philip Rashleigh who published a subsequent account.[4] Some were later dispersed, but most of the hoard was presented to the British Museum. Many of the artefacts were decorated with stylized niello animals, a feature of Anglo-Saxon art which has since become known as Trewhiddle style decoration |
as well as to a new area of forgery, e.g. the 'Strickland Brooch' described as ninth century, history unknown.
The history of this elaborate silver disc brooch is almost unknown. It is named after the Strickland family of Yorkshire, and may well have belonged to Sir William Strickland, a keen collector of antiquities in the nineteenth century.
A black niello inlay has been used to make the decoration stand out, and blue glass picks out the eyes of the animal heads. Small dots punched into some areas of the curved surface of the brooch give it a sparkling appearance. This style is typical of fine Anglo-Saxon metalwork of the ninth century. It is called the Trewhiddle Style after a Cornish hoard. |
The objects in the Trewhiddle Hoard include a silver chalice 'similar to one from Hexham' which is the earliest in Britain
| Unique is the scourge of plaited silver wires, an ecclesiastical object otherwise known only from literature |
Artefact copying artefact, and not hard to spot
| The chalice, which contained the rest of the hoard, had been placed in a heap of loose stones, the refuse of an old tin working, and covered with a common slate at a depth of 5 m below the surface, the stones clearly intended as a marker to facilitate later recovery. ... This is the only closely datable find from a tin stream in the 'Saxon' period - if such a name can be applied to Cornwall where Saxon as opposed to Celtic objects are very rare. |
It took nine hundred years to notice the 'marker' but another nearby hoard would be found less than one hundred years later
| What the hoard was doing in Cornwall in the first place is a matter of unresolved conjecture, though it is worth remembering that the only other hoard of Saxon silver coins, half a century younger than Trewhiddle, was only 11 km to the east near Fowey in 1953 [seventeen silver coins, 14 of Edward the Elder and three of Athelstan found at Penhale, a mile north-west of Fowey] | |
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Hatty
Site Admin
In: Berkshire
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Mention of Fowey reminds me... Philip Rashleigh was MP for Fowey, as was his father, and a succession of Rashleighs before and after carried on the tradition. It has to be one coincidence too many that only two A-S hoards have ever been found in Cornwall, both in the borough of Fowey (the first on Rashleigh land).
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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| Hatty wrote: | | It turns out that Cnut coins are quite rare and at least some types of Cnut coins -- twenty types in all -- may have to be re-classified as 'Continental' |
| The etymology of the name Denmark (Danish: Danmark), and especially the relationship between Danes and Denmark and the unifying of Denmark as a single kingdom, is a subject which attracts some debate.[1][2] In Old Norse, the country was called Danmǫrk, referring to the Danish March, viz. the marches of the Danes. The Latin and Greek name is Dania. |
Mythological explanations
Some of the earliest descriptions of the origin of the word 'Denmark', describing a territory, are found in the Chronicon Lethrense (12th century), Svend Aagesen (late 12th century), Saxo Grammaticus (early 13th century) and the Ballad of Eric (mid 15th century). There are, however, many more Danish annuals and yearbooks containing various other details, similar tales in other variations, other names or spelling variations.
The Chronicon Lethrense explains how the Roman Emperor Augustus battled Denmark in the time of David,[6] Denmark consisted of seven territories Jutland, Funen, Zealand, Møn, Falster, Lolland and Skåne which were governed by King Ypper of Uppsala. He had three sons, Nori, Østen and Dan. Dan was sent to govern Zealand, Møn, Falster, and Lolland, which became known jointly as Videslev. When the Jutes were fighting Emperor Augustus they called upon Dan to help them. Upon victory, they made him king of Jutland, Funen, Videslev and Skåne. A council decided to call this new united land Danmark (Dania) after their new king, Dan. Saxo relates that it is the legendary Danish King Dan, son of Humbli, who gave the name to the Danish people, though he does not expressly state that he is also the origin of the word "Denmark". Rather he tells that England ultimately derives its name from Dan’s brother Angel. |
| The earliest mention of a territory called "Denmark" is found in King Alfred the Great's modified translation into Old English of Paulus Orosius' Seven Books of History Against The Pagans ("Historiarum adversum Paganos Libri Septem"), written by Alfred when king of Wessex in the years 871–899. In a passage introduced to the text by Alfred, we read about Ohthere of Hålogaland’s travels in the Nordic region, during which 'Denmark [Denamearc] was on his port side... And then for two days he had on his (port side) the islands which belong to Denmark'.[7] |
londoni?
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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Wiley, it's against the rules to just pile a load of Wikimeat on everyone without comment. Especially as the only comment you do make is incomprehensible. Never mind, muggins will do it. As per.
| In Old Norse, the country was called Danmǫrk, referring to the Danish March, viz. the marches of the Danes. |
This is absolutely critical and nobody seems to have noticed. A 'march' is a border zone, not a country. The Welsh marches never transmogrified into Welshmark but sometimes they do eg Ostmark = Austria. So Dane-mark does not refer to a country, it refers to the border zone between (presumably) Germany and the 'Danes', implying strongly that Scandinavia was the land of the Danes and Denmark is the border zone between Germans and Scandinavians. This is why the name 'Danes' -- like the term Vikings, norsemen and suchlike -- gets used confusingly about all sorts of Scandinavians.
More later because, Wiley, people don't read giant slabs of anything.
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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| Mythological explanations |
Bet that won't stop them
| Some of the earliest descriptions of the origin of the word 'Denmark', describing a territory, are found in the Chronicon Lethrense (12th century) |
That's the one that thinks Emperor Augustus is coeval with King David.
| Svend Aagesen (late 12th century), Saxo Grammaticus (early 13th century) and the Ballad of Eric (mid 15th century). |
I'll leave Svend Aagesen for Hatty to shaft, Saxo has been put to the sword long ago and as for Eric "Mr Fifteenth Century" ... I'll leave him for any passing Applied Epistemologist (junior grade).
| There are, however, many more Danish annuals and yearbooks containing various other details, similar tales in other variations, other names or spelling variations. |
I'm not sure what the difference between an annual and a yearbook is but my Roy of the Rovers Annual taught me that last season tended to be forgotten so tracking events hundred of years into the past is not something to be entirely relied on. The great annals scam is covered in Meetings with Remarkable Forgeries.
| The earliest mention of a territory called "Denmark" is found in King Alfred the Great's modified translation into Old English of Paulus Orosius' Seven Books of History Against The Pagans |
Not so much Roy of the Rovers as Noddy and Big Ears in Legoland.
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Hatty
Site Admin
In: Berkshire
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A hoard of Anglo-Saxon coins was found in 2017 in Suffolk. In line perhaps with 'historical' records, Suffolk -- East Anglia in general -- is a good area for A-S finds and though the location is secret, it is reportedly a former 'Saxon church', an extra mark of authenticity to anyone but an AE-ist.
The hoard of 99 silver coins - believed to be more than 1,000 years old - were found by 50-year-old builder Don Crawley from Bucklesham at the site of a forgotten Saxon church in 2017
Mr Crawley, who had not visited the site before, found 99 Anglo-Saxon coins and further excavation uncovered human bones. . |
Mr Crawley told reporters he found 99 bones in a total of two visits... 93 to start with and then a further six. Coins and bones should be counted separately.
A more urgent question is why not use the bones which can be radiocarbon-dated, unlike metal coins which can't, to date the hoard?
Here's a thing -- in an uncanny echo of the Trewhiddle Hoard, the Suffolk hoard contains two anomalous coins
| There were two rare mints in the collection, according to one coin specialist, with coins from Melton Mowbray and a new mint not seen before. |
The unrecorded mint, 'Lude', is for some reason said to be Louth rather than a known mint such as Lund or London
| 'The coin reads "Dreng mo Lude" which translates as Dreng moneyer in Louth, which is in Lincolnshire. |
The 'coin specialist' is a soi-disant antiquities specialist and employed by Dix Noonan Webb, an auction house. What would be the experts' opinion?
The coins were examined by specialists and the British Museum and are believed to date back to the reign of Anglo-Saxon monarch King Ethelred II
The British Museum considered buying the coins but decided to disclaim them last month, the auctioneers said. |
'Disclaim' is a strange word to use. BM didn't quite believe enough or they just have a surfeit of A-S coins?
| The hoard will be sold by Dix Noonan Webb (DNW) in Mayfair between December 4 and 5, with the proceeds split between finder Mr Crawley and the farmer on a 50/50 basis. |
Mayfair, eh. Expensive address, if a bit on the shady side.
| The haul later sold to the Ipswich Museum for £316,000. |
Good to hear it's being kept in the family as it were.
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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| Mick Harper wrote: | Wiley, it's against the rules to just pile a load of Wikimeat on everyone without comment. Especially as the only comment you do make is incomprehensible. Never mind, muggins will do it. As per.
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It was kind of you to cnut me some slack.
| wiki wrote: | | The name of London is derived from a word first attested, in Latinised form, as Londinium. By the first century CE, this was a commercial centre in Roman Britain. |
Hattie makes the point that these Cnut coins have duplicates in Lund. I was adding equally Doni could be a signifying of "danish" and researched their mythic, marshy, river origins.
It looks like (to Wiley) less a place Denmark, more a trade network where these don coins (think about the number of river Dons) can be accepted as tender.
Cnut is probably Cant/kent and is famously linked to the waves coming in.
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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Maybe do meaning " perform a task" and done meaning "completed, finished, performed, accomplished" are worth thinking about.
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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These coins are barbarous as used by merchants tradesmen, as opposed to the posh coinage (in circulation at the same time) used contemporarily by landowners etc.
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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An interesting distinction. Many societies have stores of 'coin' that are not meant for use, going back to the legendary(?) use of Delphi as a place where Greek city states would keep their valuables. Both the Bank of England and Fort Knox are used in the same way, leading to countries 'settling their balances' by having men in boiler suits trundling bars of gold from a pile marked 'Argentina' to another one marked 'China', or whatever.
Whether 'landowners etc' did something similar will be interesting to hear.
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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https://bit.ly/36kzoRB
So Ortho..... has it that the coin makers were clever enough to invent a medieval tax scam, as images of William and Harold looked similar and folks could not read. You could pass off your coins (technically called mules) to either A/S or Norman traders. It's genius. However times were uncertain, nay violent, so some bright bugger decided to bury the miracle coinage until things quietened down. By which time there would be no need for double headers....According to an expert it shows continuity at a time of great change...
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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Wiley reckons the coins need to be understood like the tapestry with Edward, William and Harold all featuring. Date the coins to the AE date of the tapestry.
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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I can't see this. Who would do such a thing in the fourteenth century, why, and then bury the lot! Well, yes, I see why in the sense of Hundred Years War black propaganda involving kingship claims on either side of the Channel but it seems a wildly roundabout way of getting the message out. Still and all, this is majorly important so let’s get the technical stuff out of the way first.
| The largest hoard of coins ever discovered from the post-Norman Conquest period |
So a world record.
| found by an amateur during a metal detecting lesson |
Wrong. He was an absolute beginner, not an amateur, and he was accompanied by two professionals (as metal detectoring goes). So this may be cover for what actually happened. I suspect the two pro's weren't there at the actual corpus delicti.
| are an early example of tax avoidance, British Museum experts have said. |
A wondrous example of 'academic chat'. Come up with a reason which has terrific modern resonance that appeals to the public and then construct a theory round it. Being risible is no objection. More later.
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