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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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Nice one. They say they are ceremonial 'because they could never be taken out to sea' but it may be that they haven't been fitted out yet. This theory has its counterpart in TME where I argue the rows of megaliths at Carnac are awaiting purchase. Look for a ship burial at Karnak!
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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| N R Scott wrote: | | Boreades wrote: | | Can I suggest we consider chainmail in the same way as coins? |
I don't know if this has cropped up before, but medals (metals) probably overlap with coins quite a bit too.
| Roman emperors used both military awards of medals, and political gifts of medallions that were like very large coins, usually in gold or silver, and die-struck like coins. Both these and actual golden coins were often set as pieces of jewellery, worn by both sexes. |
| In Europe, from the late Middle Ages on, it became common for sovereigns, nobles, and later, intellectuals to commission medals to be given simply as gifts to their political allies to either maintain or gain support of an influential person. |
| Obverse of medal distributed by Cecilia Gonzaga's family to political allies, a common practice in Renaissance Europe. Designed by Pisanello in 1447. |
I wonder how many coins struck with images originally began life this way?
On an undated coin the image could be of anyone - the coin's intended recipient, the person giving out the coin/medal, some symbolic hero, god, historic figure. There's no reason it has to be a ruler deliberately striking currency.
Different coins could have been created, collected and swapped like football cards for all we know. |
Dont jump in just yet Scotty, you have to let the others keep up.
On COIN we insist on a true run race.
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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| Hatty wrote: | | Wile, can you sink your fangs into Sutton Hoo? |
GRRRRRW.
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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You might as well label the so called Lewis "Chess men" ....Chess pieces, and claim they are 12th Century.
Oh no.....
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Hatty
Site Admin
In: Berkshire
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| Wile E. Coyote wrote: | | Hey, whether you go with a christian linear chronology or a bastardised christian linear chronology. Its a christian linear chronology. |
The assumed demise of the Viking / Scandinavian area of operations (930s?) is notably lacking documentary evidence according to Gunnar Heinsohn who sees the tenth century as a continuation of the disintegration of 'Latin-speaking', i.e. Roman, Europe
| In the tenth century, precisely on the foundations of the disintegrating Carolingian Empire, a new order of Early Medieval Europe developed |
http://www.q-mag.org/gunnar-heinsohn-tenth-century-collapse.html
He seems to agree with you that Christianity is involved
| "It is the new and strong connection between king and Church which might hold a key to understanding the discontinuity both in towns and in central places around the turn of the millennium. A general conversion to Christianity took place at this time†| |
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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Hey pack ... Poor show....The Lady has asked you all to show your teeth
Are you pussycat or are you a wolf?
Grrwl.
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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| Mick Harper wrote: | | I wouldn't want to influence you in any way but we need Sutton Hoo to be 950 not 650. eg why's he wearing a Norman helmet? |
The helmet originally created much disappointment. It wasn't a crown. (Damn).....It has been reconstructed in the style of similar finds from Sweden.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valsg%C3%A4rde
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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| Hatty wrote: | | Wile E. Coyote wrote: | | Hey, whether you go with a christian linear chronology or a bastardised christian linear chronology. Its a christian linear chronology. |
The assumed demise of the Viking / Scandinavian area of operations (930s?) is notably lacking documentary evidence according to Gunnar Heinsohn who sees the tenth century as a continuation of the disintegration of 'Latin-speaking', i.e. Roman, Europe
| In the tenth century, precisely on the foundations of the disintegrating Carolingian Empire, a new order of Early Medieval Europe developed |
http://www.q-mag.org/gunnar-heinsohn-tenth-century-collapse.html
He seems to agree with you that Christianity is involved
| "It is the new and strong connection between king and Church which might hold a key to understanding the discontinuity both in towns and in central places around the turn of the millennium. A general conversion to Christianity took place at this time†| |
I agree that Heinsohn has a radical research problem that is developing results.
Everyone should see the merit of just going on the stratigraphy.
Not for Wiley though.
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Hatty
Site Admin
In: Berkshire
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| Mick Harper wrote: | | why's he wearing a Norman helmet? |
When the helmet was found, it had been crushed into fragments. The object on display in the British Museum is a reconstruction
| It is thought that the helmet was shattered either by the collapse of the burial chamber or by the force of another object falling on it. However, the fact that the helmet had shattered meant that it was possible to be reconstructed. Had the helmet been crushed before the iron had fully oxidised, leaving it still pliant, the helmet would have been squashed, leaving it in a distorted shape similar to helmets found at Vendel and Valsgärde. |
In fact it's Version 2
| The first restoration of the helmet (above) was completed by 1947, but continuing research showed it to be inaccurate and it was dismantled in 1968. The new restoration relied entirely on the evidence of the fragments themselves and not on preconceived ideas |
The helmet is assumed to be Swedish, if not made in Sweden then based on a Swedish model, by Neil MacGregor, one-time director of the British Museum.
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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I am not sure why you chose Sutton Hoo....to go onto COIN as it is so unrepresentative.
Most of the literature is showing that after the 7th century you have very few AS gold coins some of which some were converted to jewellery.
The earlier explanations viewed those found at Hoo as symbolic, The most celebrated appears to have been by the historian Philip Grierson, he counted the coins as 40 plus 2. Given it's a 40 oar ship (he seemed to think so) he drew the conclusion that they, the coins, were payment for the oarsman and (hey) two steersman (your ferrymen). So you have a sort of payment to take your king to the underworld.
This explanation is not currently liked by orthodoxy. It looks like something Wiley might have come up with after a bottle of Shiraz. One source says that 40 has special pagan significance.... If someone can give me a number without special pagan significance Coyote would be grateful.....
Either way if folks can find a sensible functional reason for 37 stamped coins, 3 unstamped coins, and two ingots. Something to do with tides or calendars or navigation.... we don't care how daft it later turns out.....why should you?...... please post it.
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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Actually the one coin/medal per oarsman makes more sense if you take out the royal burial paying the ferryman bit.
Maybe it's a line of inquiry.
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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jesu...hard labour ....having to dig the trenches on me own.....
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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| Hatty wrote: |
The BM lumps the Sutton Hoo coins together as Merovingian ecclesiastical tremisses, 'Merovingian' because they're purportedly from seventh-century France. The ecclesiastical bit is odd; according to the British Museum the coins are from the 'Church of St Etienne' but there is no trace of any St Etienne church anywhere in France dating to the seventh century or earlier. |
I will hazard a guess at this point......
| wiki wrote: |
Merovech (French: Mérovée, Latin: Meroveus or Merovius, reconstructed Frankish: *Mariwig;[1] died 453/457) is the semi-legendary founder of the Merovingian dynasty of the Salian Franks (although Chlodio may in fact be the founder), which later became the dominant Frankish tribe. He is said to be one of several barbarian warlords and kings that joined forces with the Roman general Aetius against the Huns under Attila on the Catalaunian fields in Gaul. The first Frankish royal dynasty called themselves Merovingians ("descendants of Meroveus") after him, although no other historical evidence exists that Merovech ever lived.
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Turns out a variant of Mer that we also find in Mercia.....
Note that one.
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