MemberlistThe Library Index  FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
The evolution of the Viking ship. (NEW CONCEPTS)
Reply to topic Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Jorn



View user's profile
Reply with quote

We know from biology that in order for something new to evolve, it needs to be a selectional pressure in the environment that drives the process. I think this is true for the development of technology as well.

So before I begin on the evolution of the viking ships, I want to explain why the Norwegian coast is so special in the world.

The basic concept is that Norway has both an inner and an outer coastline, where the inner coastline is protected from large waves by skerries and islands facing the North sea. This type of geological landscape is called a Strandflat.

Strandflat is a landform, the low land on the coast and the near coast bottom of sea, typical for the landscape of the Norwegian coast.
...
Characteristics

The strandflat includes areas on land as well as in the sea, and might be separated in three zones: Outmost is a submarine zone, thereafter a skerry zone and innermost a supramarine zone. The strandflat ends against a steep rock on the land side, even higher mountains, and in the sea side the strandflat ends with a steep slope down to the continental shelf. The strandflat is near to the sea level of today; the areas on land side reach no more than 50 m., and the areas in sea is commonly not more than 50 m deep. The width of strandflat varies from 50 - 60 km to nearly nothing. The strandflat is a location for lots of special mountains, they are called rauk. They have one common characteristic, they are all very steep. The rauks are landmarks on the Norwegian coast.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strandflat


This is not really visible on a low resolution map, so in trying to get people to understand the concept, I will start with a few images and maps.









If you want to see more, you could go to Google Maps:
The Norwegian coast

If you zoom in it is easy to see how extensively the inner coast is sheltered, and it is also easy to see that transportation over land was more or less impossible.

A few images might also illustrate why land-based transport over distances, was more or less impossible for large parts of the country.





Some of these fjords are so sheltered, and get such mild weather from the Gulf Stream that you can grow apricots there.

To sum up. If some Norwegian wanted to trade something, he needed to go by boat. Because the coastline is so sheltered, you could in principle go from Denmark to the Russian border in a dugout tree boat, as will be the subject of the next post.
Send private message
Jorn



View user's profile
Reply with quote

First on the evolutionary boat ladder is the dugout or logboat. These are found all over the world.

A dugout or dugout canoe is a boat made from a hollowed tree trunk. Other names for this type of boat are logboat and monoxylon. Monoxylon (μονόξυλον) (pl: monoxyla) is Greek -- mono- (single) + ξύλον xylon (tree) -- and is mostly used in classic Greek texts. In Germany they are called einbaum ("one tree" in English)). Some, but not all, pirogues are also constructed in this manner.


Dugouts are the oldest boats archaeologists have found, dating back about eight thousand years.[1] This is probably because they are made of massive pieces of wood, which tend to preserve better than, e.g., bark canoes. Einbaum dug-out boat finds in Germany date back to the Stone Age. Along with bark canoe and hide kayak, dugout boats were also used by indigenous peoples of the Americas.
...


A logboat found in the fresh water lake Mjøsa

Northern Europe

Dugout boats have been found in Scandinavia and Germany. In German, the craft are known as einbaum (one-tree). These boats were used for fishing and transport on calmer bodies of water.[3] Dugouts require no metal parts or shipbuilding expertise, and were likely common amongst farming folk in Northern Europe until large trees suitable for making this type of watercraft became scarce. Length was limited to the size of trees in the old-growth forests -- up to 10 metres (33 ft) in length.[4] Later models increased freeboard (and seaworthiness) by lashing additional boards to the side of the boat. Eventually, the dugout portion was reduced to a solid keel, and the lashed boards on the sides became a Lapstrake hull.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dugout_(boat)


The next logical step was to sew on a few extra boards on each side, so that it could handle a little bit rougher waves. This variant has also been found, and it is called "Haugvikbaten" but for some reason I have a hard time finding pictures of it.

It also looks like they have found more of the boat, and that it is supposed to get its own museum, and they are supposedly working on a reconstruction, but no images here either.

It has been dated by c14 to 2500-2800 BP. It is probably a result of two museums quarreling over it, so that nobody wants to do the work to present it to the public.



From my experience this type of boat would tend to twist and fold unless all parts of the boat were kept wet all the time. I would reckon this is almost impossible, so in order to counteract this, the next logical step would be to put crossbeams on in order to keep the original span between the sides. (I can't find the English word for the concept, as a frame is not correct.)

Before I go to the Hjortspring boat, I would like to post some images of the rock carvings of boats, that are found in almost uncountable numbers in the Strandflat areas




Here is a website with countless rock carvings from all over Scandinavia.
http://www.arild-hauge.com/eindex.htm

The next two parts will have to wait until tomorrow, where the first post will be about one more Bronze age boat and a proto-viking ship, before the classical viking ships comes last.
Send private message
Jorn



View user's profile
Reply with quote

It is time to move to the Scandinavian pre-Roman iron age, so called because you find layers where you find a lot of iron objects, but no Roman or south European stuff.

It was a Dane that came up with the concept of the three ages, Stone age, Bronze age and Iron age, and though it might not fit outside Scandinavia, it fits here.

Instead of wooden rivets like the previous boat, they have now started to use iron ones.


The Hjortspring boat is a vessel designed as a large canoe, from the Scandinavian Pre-Roman Iron Age, that was excavated in 1921–1922 from the bog known as Hjortspring Mose on the island of Als in Sønderjylland. It was a clinker-built wooden boat 21 m long (outer length), 13 m long inside and 2 m wide with space for a crew of 22–23 men who propelled the boat with paddles: it was built around 400-300 BC.



The boat is the oldest find of a wooden plank ship in Scandinavia and its closest parallels are the thousands of petroglyph images of Nordic Bronze Age ships.



When found, it contained a great quantity of weapons and armour, including 131 shields of the Celtic type, 33 beautifully crafted shieldbosses, 138 spearheads of iron, 10 iron swords, and the remains of a mailcoat. Thus, its sinking has been interpreted as a deliberate war sacrifice.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hjortspring_boat





This type of boat could not handle the high seas, but it is good enough to sail along the Norwegian coast down to Denmark, and because it is so light, you could carry it over over a so called "Eid", rather than sail around the more dangerous exposed parts. An Eid is a short low-lying place with water on both sides, and you could also save time by using an Eid, rather than sail around.

This type of boat is paddled, rather than rowed.

For those interested you can read more about the boat here:
http://www.hjortspring.dk/wold/index_en.htm
Send private message
Jorn



View user's profile
Reply with quote

Next in line is no longer a boat, but is called a ship.



The sacrifice site was probably used on different occasions during the years 200-450. The oak boat was the first boat found, and the only one still preserved. It has been dendro dated to 310-320. The oak boat is considered the oldest Nordic shipfind and the oldest known clinker built boat. It is 23 m long, c 4 m wide, of clinker type, and built for 15 pairs of oars.



The Nydam Boat is the largest and best preserved of the boats found in Nydam Bog and is now displayed at Gottorp Castle in Schleswig. It once weighed over three tonnes and was rowed by thirty men.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nydam_Mose


There are many websites about this old ship, because it is the only ship the Germans have, and it is from a Scandinavian POW war loot from the Dano-German in 1878?

You can find out more about the boat here:
http://www.nydam.nu/boatbuilding

An old image of the reconstructed ship, and you can see that this one is rowed


When I have been making these posts, I have found more of these boats, than I had heard about before, and there is also many others that are known, but are left in bogs for now, as we don't have a good technology to preserve them yet.

Soaking them in alum as they did with the Norwegian found viking ships, was not a good idea, as they ended up with a hard shell, that tore the insides of the planks from each other because of small changes in temperature.
Send private message
Mick Harper
Site Admin

In: London
View user's profile
Reply with quote

Dear Jorn, couple of technical points. First, please do not post a whole bunch of things on a single thread, it's too daunting for us to read. Post one thing, wait a while, see if you get a response. Then go ahead with the next one. Perhaps the next day but anyway a lot later.

Secondly, owing to the limitations of the software of this site, page widths go haywire when people post up either pictures or URLs that are too wide or too long. The result is (for me, other people have got other computers) that to read everything, one has to scroll right and left every line. Which I for one won't do no matter how interesting the material might be.

So go back to your posts on this page and start adjusting anything that seems to be messing with the width of the page. Then I'll read it!
Send private message
Jorn



View user's profile
Reply with quote

It is now time for the classical Viking ship, and it is only with them you get sails. For academics, a mast and a sail is no problem as they don't understand the forces involved where the mast is connected to the keel. Just like a tree can be uprooted in a storm, the mast can snap from the keel if you don't fasten it well enough. If you fasten it too well, it can snap the keel instead.

Also as the boats grew larger and turned into ships, they had to become more seaworthy, as some of the rivers got too shallow and the Eids too long. The Eid names have stuck as place names, and are still found just where you expect them to be, if you look at a map.

The first ship I will show is the Oseberg-ship.


The Oseberg ship (Norwegian: Osebergskipet) is a well-preserved Viking ship discovered in a large burial mound at the Oseberg farm near Tønsberg in Vestfold county, Norway.[1]

This is an image of the worm-head used in the bow if they went to war


The Oseberg burial mound (Norwegian: Oseberghaugen ved Slagen from the Old Norse word haugr meaning mound or barrow) contained numerous grave goods and two female human skeletons. The ship's interment into its burial mound dates from 834 A.D, but parts of the ship date from around 800 A.D, and the ship itself is thought to be older.

Ship structure

The ship is a clinker built 'karv' ship built almost entirely of oak. It is 21.58 m long and 5.10 m broad, with a mast of approximately 9-10 m. With a sail of c. 90 m², the ship could achieve a speed up to 10 knots. The ship has 15 pairs of oar holes, which means that 30 people could row the ship. Other fittings include a broad steering oar, iron anchor, gangplank and a bailer. The bow and stern of the ship are elaborately decorated with complex woodcarvings in the characteristic "gripping beast" style, also known as the Oseberg style.


Although seaworthy, the ship is relatively frail, and it is thought to have been used only for coastal voyages. The boat has low freeboard, with the topsides slightly flaired. In section the shape is similar to a hard chine with a distinct change of angle at the waterline and slack bilges . There is very little round in the sections meaning the displacement is low for the length of the hull compared to the Gokstad ship which has more rounded sections.


The unsuitablity of the design for ocean travel has been shown by the sinking of the modern facsimile twice during moderate weather. The main reasons appear to be the lack of freeboard ,especailly forward, where the hollow (concave)bow sections are very fine and lack the displacement necessary when the ship is driven down wind even by the limited sail area.

Send private message
Jorn



View user's profile
Reply with quote

The first real seaworthy ship that has been found is the so called Gokstad ship.

The Gokstad ship is a Viking ship found in a burial mound at Gokstad farm in Sandar, Sandefjord, Vestfold, Norway.



The Gokstad ship is clinker-built, constructed largely of oak. The ship was intended for warfare, trade, transportation of people and cargo. The ship is 23.24 metres (76.2 ft) long and 5.20 m (17.1 ft) wide. It is the largest in the Viking Ship Museum in Oslo. The ship was steered by a quarter rudder fastened to a large block of wood attached to the outside of the hull
...

The ship was built to carry 32 oarsmen, and the oar holes could be hatched down when the ship was under sail. It utilized a square sail of approximately 110 square metres (1,200 sq ft), which, it is estimated, could propel the ship to over 12 knots (22 km/h; 14 mph). The mast could be raised and lowered. While the ship was traveling in shallow water, the rudder could be raised very quickly by undoing the fastening. Dendrochronological dating suggests that the ship was built of timber that was felled around 890 AD.



The ship's design has been demonstrated to be very seaworthy, by all the voyages made by replicas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gokstad_ship


I also want to mention the Skuldelev ships


The Skuldelev ships is a term used for 5 Viking ships recovered from Peberrenden by Skuldelev, c. 20 km north of Roskilde in Denmark. In 1962, the remains of the ships were excavated over 4 months. The recovered pieces constitute 5 types of ships and have been dated to the 11th century. The Skuldelev ships provide a good source of information about the shipbuilding traditions of the late Viking period. They were sunk to prevent attack from the sea.


Skuldelev 1 is a sturdy sea-going cargo-vessel, possibly of the knarr type. It is 16 m long and 4.8 m wide and would have had a crew of 6 to 8. The ship, which is built from pine and oak, was constructed in western Sweden, and has seen repairs in eastern Denmark.

Skuldelev 2


Skuldelev 2 is an oak-built, sea-going warship. It is a longship, possibly of the skeid type. It is approximately 30 m long and 3.8 m wide, and would have had a crew of 70-80. Dendrochronology showed that the ship was built in the Dublin area around 1042. The shape of the ship would have allowed for great speed, up to 15 knots (28 km/h) with a rowing crew of 60 and more while under sail. It is one of the longest Viking-ships ever found.

Skuldelev 3

The Skuldelev 3 is a 14 m long and 3.3 m wide cargo ship, possibly of the byrding type. It is made from oak, and was constructed somewhere in Denmark. It would have been well-suited to shorter journeys in Danish waters and the Baltic Sea, it would have held a crew of 5-6 and could reach a top-speed of 8.5 knots (16 km/h) under sail.


Skuldelev 5

Skuldelev 5 is a small warship of the snekkja type. It is 17.3 m long and 2.5 m wide and would have had a crew of about 30. It is made from oak, pine and ash, and was built in the Roskilde area. The ship was purpose-built for sailing in Danish waters and the Baltic Sea, and the top speed was calculated to have been about 6 knots (11 km/h).

Skuldelev 6

Skuldelev 6 is a 11.2 m long and 2.5 m wide cargo and fishing-vessel of the ferja type. It was built in Sognefjorden in western Norway, mainly from pine. It would have had a crew of 12-14.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skuldelev_ships


The Danes have built many replicas of their ships, so the knowledge about how they sailed and precautions one need to take, is starting to become well known.

This is a wikipedia link to replicas, for those that are interested.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viking_ship_replica
Send private message
Jorn



View user's profile
Reply with quote

The first real seaworthy ship that has been found is the so called Gokstad ship.

The Gokstad ship is a Viking ship found in a burial mound at Gokstad farm in Sandar, Sandefjord, Vestfold, Norway.



The Gokstad ship is clinker-built, constructed largely of oak. The ship was intended for warfare, trade, transportation of people and cargo. The ship is 23.24 metres (76.2 ft) long and 5.20 m (17.1 ft) wide. It is the largest in the Viking Ship Museum in Oslo.
....
The ship was built to carry 32 oarsmen, and the oar holes could be hatched down when the ship was under sail. It utilized a square sail of approximately 110 square metres (1,200 sq ft), which, it is estimated, could propel the ship to over 12 knots (22 km/h; 14 mph). The mast could be raised and lowered. While the ship was traveling in shallow water, the rudder could be raised very quickly by undoing the fastening. Dendrochronological dating suggests that the ship was built of timber that was felled around 890 AD.



The ship's design has been demonstrated to be very seaworthy, by all the voyages made by replicas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gokstad_ship


I also want to mention the Skuldelev ships


The Skuldelev ships is a term used for 5 Viking ships recovered from Peberrenden by Skuldelev, c. 20 km north of Roskilde in Denmark. In 1962, the remains of the ships were excavated over 4 months. The recovered pieces constitute 5 types of ships and have been dated to the 11th century. The Skuldelev ships provide a good source of information about the shipbuilding traditions of the late Viking period. They were sunk to prevent attack from the sea.


Skuldelev 1 is a sturdy sea-going cargo-vessel, possibly of the knarr type. It is 16 m long and 4.8 m wide and would have had a crew of 6 to 8. The ship, which is built from pine and oak, was constructed in western Sweden, and has seen repairs in eastern Denmark.

Skuldelev 2


Skuldelev 2 is an oak-built, sea-going warship. It is a longship, possibly of the skeid type. It is approximately 30 m long and 3.8 m wide, and would have had a crew of 70-80. Dendrochronology showed that the ship was built in the Dublin area around 1042. The shape of the ship would have allowed for great speed, up to 15 knots (28 km/h) with a rowing crew of 60 and more while under sail. It is one of the longest Viking-ships ever found.

Skuldelev 3

The Skuldelev 3 is a 14 m long and 3.3 m wide cargo ship, possibly of the byrding type. It is made from oak, and was constructed somewhere in Denmark. It would have been well-suited to shorter journeys in Danish waters and the Baltic Sea, it would have held a crew of 5-6 and could reach a top-speed of 8.5 knots (16 km/h) under sail.


Skuldelev 5

Skuldelev 5 is a small warship of the snekkja type. It is 17.3 m long and 2.5 m wide and would have had a crew of about 30. It is made from oak, pine and ash, and was built in the Roskilde area. The ship was purpose-built for sailing in Danish waters and the Baltic Sea, and the top speed was calculated to have been about 6 knots (11 km/h).

Skuldelev 6

Skuldelev 6 is a 11.2 m long and 2.5 m wide cargo and fishing-vessel of the ferja type. It was built in Sognefjorden in western Norway, mainly from pine. It would have had a crew of 12-14.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skuldelev_ships


The Danes have built many replicas of their ships, so the knowledge about how they sailed and precautions one need to take, is starting to become well known.

This is a wikipedia link to replicas, for those that are interested.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viking_ship_replica
Send private message
Mick Harper
Site Admin

In: London
View user's profile
Reply with quote

Jorn, if you insist on posting up a whole bunch of stuff when you have been asked not to, do not be surprised if the editors just delete a whole bunch of your stuff! Also please attend to our requests re the width of your pics.
Send private message
Jorn



View user's profile
Reply with quote

Mick Harper wrote:
Dear Jorn, couple of technical points. First, please do not post a whole bunch of things on a single thread, it's too daunting for us to read. Post one thing, wait a while, see if you get a response. Then go ahead with the next one. Perhaps the next day but anyway a lot later.


I am sorry, but I kind of had to do it this way, because as I have been reading this site, it is clear that you guys have not been interested in the evolution of ships.

I tried to take a short version in another thread, and was told by Ishmael that he wanted proof before he would discuss anything about the Viking ship evolving in Scandinavia.

Mick Harper wrote:
Secondly, owing to the limitations of the software of this site, page widths go haywire when people post up either pictures or URLs that are too wide or too long. The result is (for me, other people have got other computers) that to read everything, one has to scroll right and left every line. Which I for one won't do no matter how interesting the material might be.

So go back to your posts on this page and start adjusting anything that seems to be messing with the width of the page. Then I'll read it!


I find it annoying myself, so I chose images and links that looked to have plenty of space on both sides on my screen.

I will change them, but it would be nice to know how wide they can be for it not to be a problem.
400px? 600px?

It is the same with the links. How long should they be for nobody to have a problem.
Send private message
Mick Harper
Site Admin

In: London
View user's profile
Reply with quote

I am sorry, but I kind of had to do it this way, because as I have been reading this site, it is clear that you guys have not been interested in the evolution of ships.

We are interested in anything that people make interesting.

I tried to take a short version in another thread, and was told by Ismael that he wanted proof, before he would discuss anything about the Viking ship evolving in Scandinavia.

Since nobody ever reads a whole mass of stuff suddenly hurled at them, this is immaterial.

I find it annoying myself, so I chose images and links looked to have plenty of space on both sides on my screen.

You just have be pragmatic and go much smaller.

I will change them, but it would be nice to know how wide they can be for it not to be a problem. 400px? 600px?

You've lost me. Somebody more technically gifted may be able to help.

It is the same with the links. How long should they be for nobody to have a problem.

I find just putting in a hard return every now and again does the trick. But you'll just have to experiment. Someone (I have never found out who) often converts my URL's to little blue underlined thingies. If you're going to stick around (and I hope you do) you will just have to learn our funny little ways.
Send private message
Jorn



View user's profile
Reply with quote

Mick Harper wrote:
Jorn, if you insist on posting up a whole bunch of stuff when you have been asked not to, do not be surprised if the editors just delete a whole bunch of your stuff! Also please attend to our requests re the width of your pics.

I am reducing the size of the images at the moment, just give me some time.
Send private message
Mick Harper
Site Admin

In: London
View user's profile
Reply with quote

It seems bearable now! I will begin plodding through your posts.
Send private message
Ishmael


In: Toronto
View user's profile
Reply with quote

Jorn wrote:
I...was told by Ishmael that he wanted proof before he would discuss anything about the Viking ship evolving in Scandinavia.


This is all very interesting.

However, for the record, I was referring specifically to your assertions regarding the evolution of words.
Send private message
Ishmael


In: Toronto
View user's profile
Reply with quote

Mick Harper wrote:
Someone (I have never found out who) often converts my URL's to little blue underlined thingies.


That would be me.
Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

Jump to:  
Page 1 of 6

MemberlistThe Library Index  FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group