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Principles of Applied Epistemology (APPLIED EPISTEMOLOGY)
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Mick Harper
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In: London
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One must grope. By the by, are we to hear your solution of the Causes of the Great Depression Debate any time soon?
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Brian Ambrose



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Mick, what you have not realised in your endearingly naive analysis is that this sharing business has nothing to do with ethics or quasi politics or any other belief. As a parent, it is only about how long you can hold out with the little sister screaming 'I WANT TO PLAY WITH MICHAEL'S TOYS, WAAAAAAAAA!!!'

But I think you have confirmed that Applied Epistemologists are not cut out for parenthood, which is largely a pragmatic rather than an analytic profession.
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Ishmael


In: Toronto
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On the topic of religion and left-liberalism, I agree with Grant that the two are to be conflated. The question then is, for what purpose does this religion exist?

Unlike the empty nonsense written above, there are AE principles that can be used to investigate politics. We begin by establishing some givens.

First, what is the one characteristic that remains true of liberalism and conservatism regardless of time or place?

It is the one characteristic identified by Mick long ago: Conservatism is rural; liberalism is urban.

Other characteristics change but this does not. For example, in Iran, the liberals believe many of the same things believed by the conservatives of the United States; in Russia; the conservatives believe many of the same things believed by liberals in the U.K.

So we have this one principle: Conservatism is rural; liberalism is urban.

Let us add to it the one new idea given us by Grant and see if that helps us make sense of things.

Liberalism is a religion

Grant interprets this principle psychologically -- getting inside the mind of an individual believer. but as our first principle is sociological, let us interpret the second principle the same way.
  • Conservatism is rural; liberalism is urban.
  • Liberalism is a religion
  • Liberalism is an urban religion.

Now what is the sociological purpose of a religion? Why would urbanites be in particular need of a religion and why would they be most eager to cast aside -- and to encourage others to cast aside -- traditional belief systems?

Once you understand this, you can understand world history a lot better as well.
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Ishmael


In: Toronto
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Mick Harper wrote:
One must grope. By the by, are we to hear your solution of the Causes of the Great Depression Debate any time soon?


When I get round to it.
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Mick Harper
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In: London
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This was precisely what I meant by last observation. However, pace Ishmael (and perhaps yourself), I have found that observing other people's bringing up of children to be immensely rewarding AE-wise.

In the first place there is the potentially profound gulf between political assumptions as applied to society and those assumptions when applied to one's own children. The classical illustration is that of Jean-Jacques Rousseau, in many ways the First Modern Leftist. He wanted the best for everybody but obliged his mistress to put their own children into care the better to look after himself. This is translated for mere mortals in the perennial question of where to send one's children to school. In accordance with your political beliefs or their needs?

But even more revealing is the typical adult's unexamined assumptions. More or less everything from "Early to bed, early to rise makes a man healthy, wealthy and wise" to "Brush your teeth" is actually strictly rote.

But I think you have confirmed that Applied Epistemologists are not cut out for parenthood,

There is a wider point you are nearly making. It is probably not possible to be an Applied Epistemologist and a parent. Not just because, as you say, there is not sufficient space to make non-rote decisions in the real world but because parenting is in itself too involving to permit the leisure time necessary to become an AE-ist. In fact 'getting a life' is itself antithetical to the pursuit of AE.
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Mick Harper
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It is the one characteristic identified by Mick long ago:
Conservatism is rural; liberalism is urban.

I am always pleased to have come up with something my sternest taskmaster approves of though I do not in fact recognise this statement. (Perhaps, Ishmael, you might track down a reference?) In The Megalithic Empire I point out that Christianity is urban and Megalithia is rural. Though I am not sure how that equates with left/right.

Other characteristics change but this does not. For example, in Iran, the liberals believe many of the same things believed by the conservatives of the United States; in Russia; the conservatives believe many of the same things believed by liberals in the U.K.


I find this a bit baffling. I hesitate to say 'untrue'. And certainly doesn't seem to coincide with the urban/rural split of Ishmael's argument. All I can say is that Western media are forever interviewing urban liberal types in both Iran and Russia in a highly approving way while I sit watching, fuming because I know that neither Russians nor Iranians (en masse) have the slightest wish to go the Western Way. Putin has just beaten his nearest challenger by forty percentage points. Result: western telly films a few hundred Muscovite liberals moaning about it.

Western AE-ists hesitate to prescribe what's best for Russia or Iran.
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Ishmael


In: Toronto
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Mick Harper wrote:
I point out that Christianity is urban and Megalithia is rural. Though I am not sure how that equates with left/right.


It does so perfectly. Read my post again and answer the questions I pose.
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Ishmael


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Mick Harper wrote:
Western AE-ists hesitate to prescribe what's best for Russia or Iran.


I didn't.

I hope I don't start missing the point to this degree when I get old.
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Ishmael


In: Toronto
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Mick Harper wrote:
I do not in fact recognise this statement. (Perhaps, Ishmael, you might track down a reference?)


You did not put it so pithily. But the observation was yours.
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Grant



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Conservatism is rural; liberalism is urban


Maybe those who live in the country are more aware of the ineluctable forces of nature.

If you have watched foxes kill chickens from the age of two you would be less likely to say "oh look at that pretty little creature, let's pass laws to protect it." If your family had worked their land for centuries they are not going to believe in inheritance tax. If you slaughtered animals as a child, you are less likely to become a vegetarian.
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Ishmael


In: Toronto
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Your eye is on the wrong target.

Funny how you ask someone a point blank question and they insist upon ignoring it to answer another. I can assume only that pride keeps us from being beholden to another for inspiration.
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Chad


In: Ramsbottom
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I find it most amusing how former lefties, who have seen the light and embraced the philosophies of the right, do so with a zealotry indistinguishable from that of the religious convert.

They are able to conflate liberalism with religion... but god forbid anybody should do the same to their new-found conservatism.

You cannot be a true Applied Epistemologist until you can see the rationality of all sides of an argument... and are able to accept one or other (or indeed propose an alternative) without prejudice... on merit alone.

But of course right is right and left is simply naive... and those who refuse to commit, are deluding themselves.

Harper for Prime Minister.
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Mick Harper
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He already is. In Canada. But how do I start supporting Milan now that Arsenal have got three goals back? That is the true test of impartiality.
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Chad


In: Ramsbottom
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I'm totally impartial to events in the Champion League... we having extricated ourselves in order to pursue the only trophy missing from our cabinet.
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nemesis8


In: byrhfunt
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Mick Harper wrote:
I point out that Christianity is urban and Megalithia is rural. Though I am not sure how that equates with left/right.


DPCrisp will be spluttering into his cornflakes when he reads that....
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