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Megalithic Saints (British History)
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Ishmael


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Mick Harper wrote:
Well, you are always more radical than I am. As with left-wing ideologues (and perhaps right wing ones, let us know) there is always the temptation to suppose that being holier-than-thou is the same as being better-than-thou.


I take your methods to their logical conclusion.
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Mick Harper
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Megalithic Saints (Cont)

It is not very surprising that a system that had evolved to cope with a non-literate world before the Romans should return once again in the more or less non-literate conditions that existed in Britain and Gaul after the Romans. What is surprising is how openly the pre-Christian Megalithics flaunted their 'pagan' credentials in the officially Christian Dark Ages.

However it is fortunate for us, trying to piece together the Megalithic input into this near-opaque world, because the Christians have left us written records and it is mainly a matter of 'deciphering' what those records can tell us about Megalithic activities -- 'deciphering' because the Megalithics always acted under Christian guise even when making it apparently quite clear that their primary purpose was not the saving of men's souls.

The easiest way of telling Megalithic Christians apart from Catholic ones is by the saints they chose to honour. We are all aware of the orthodox canon which is headed by the Virgin Mary and embraces the Apostles, including St Paul, and lots of historical Christian characters from martyrs to kings to popes. But the Megalithics chose an anti-canon. For instance John the Baptist is always a Megalithic figure because he is a sometime rival of Jesus; Mary Magdalen is the Megalithic equivalent of the Virgin Mary; Martha is Megalithic because she is the Magdalen's sister; St James is Megalithic because, though an apostle and a brother of Jesus, he fought Paul, the arch-Catholic, for control of the Church.
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Ishmael


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Mick Harper wrote:
It is not very surprising that a system that had evolved to cope with a non-literate world before the Romans should return once again in the more or less non-literate conditions that existed in Britain and Gaul after the Romans. What is surprising is how openly the pre-Christian Megalithics flaunted their 'pagan' credentials in the officially Christian Dark Ages.


Blimey! It's almost like the Romans left the world as they found it. Unchanged by their presence.

The easiest way of telling Megalithic Christians apart from Catholic ones is by the saints they chose to honour. We are all aware of the orthodox canon which is headed by the Virgin Mary and embraces the Apostles, including St Paul, and lots of historical Christian characters from martyrs to kings to popes. But the Megalithics chose an anti-canon. For instance John the Baptist is always a Megalithic figure because he is a sometime rival of Jesus; Mary Magdalen is the Megalithic equivalent of the Virgin Mary; Martha is Megalithic because she is the Magdalen's sister; St James is Megalithic because, though an apostle and a brother of Jesus, he fought Paul, the arch-Catholic, for control of the Church.


Amazing. How the hell do you come up with this stuff???
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Mick Harper
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You ain't seen nothing yet. Oddly, this particular canon/anti-canon stuff came to us only the other day. Though conspiracy theorists have always known it in their bones.
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Mick Harper
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Ishmael, you're a daughter of the manse, help me out because I think I'm getting me apostles in an uproar. St James is the brother of Jesus and fought with Paul over the Church, right? Another James is the Son of Thunder, right? He's got a (twin) brother, therefore presumably another Son of Thunder, called John who was a) originally a disciple of John the Baptist and b) was the purported author of the Book of Revelations which purportedly is full of John the Baptist ideology.

This is important for us because the B of R is our quoted source of St Michael's link with Megalithia via the verse

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon -- Book of Revelations 12:7.

But is this the only Biblical reference to Michael, angels and dragons or are there others? Also which James is the one that the Compostella cult is dedicated to? Can we get away with claiming that the Megalithics can conflate James's if they want to?
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Ishmael


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Mick Harper wrote:
St James is the brother of Jesus and fought with Paul over the Church, right?


It's typically Paul and Peter who are juxtaposed. Even this juxtaposition is questionable, as Paul mentions in his letters a certain "Cephas" who has his own followers. The appearance of "Peter" in the text is thought by some to have been a latter interpolation to identify "Cephas" with the disciple appearing in the Gospel as Peter.

(p.s. It just occurs to me that this fits with my notion of the New Testament having been compiled by proto-Protestants)

Another James is the Son of Thunder, right? He's got a (twin) brother, therefore presumably another Son of Thunder, called John


Right so far. They are both called sons of thunder by Christ. They were the literal sons of "Zebedee", a name we have deduced to be synonymous with Zeus-Pater, which clearly associates them with the Gemini twins, Castor and Pollux (and makes sense of their request of Christ that God rain fire upon the city that rejected their message).

As the Gemini Twins, I expect they will have an important role in navigation.

who was a) originally a disciple of John the Baptist

Yes.

and b) was the purported author of the Book of Revelations

No. John of Revelations was yet another John, also known as John of Patmos.

Now. I happen to think that the name "John" is some sort of astrological code word. I suspect it refers to some kind of standard measure in the sky. I am persuaded that the book of revelations is in fact a horoscope (Fomenko). Its attribution to "John" is a reference to the stars.

The same is true -- I suspect -- of Johannes Kepler!

...which purportedly is full of John the Baptist ideology.

Maybe. I have no idea.
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Ishmael


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...is this the only Biblical reference to Michael, angels and dragons or are there others?


More research is required.

Also which James is the one that the Compostella cult is dedicated to?


James the brother of John.

Can we get away with claiming that the Megalithics can conflate James's if they want to?


Ask Donmillion.
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Mick Harper
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More research is required.

You used to claim that you knew the Bible by heart. Sigh. Is there a searchable online Bible? By the way, James v Paul is extra-Biblical but, as far as I know, quite historical. Something to do with requiring to be Jewish or not if you wanted to be a Christian.
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Ishmael


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Mick Harper wrote:
By the way, James v Paul is extra-Biblical but, as far as I know, quite historical. Something to do with requiring to be Jewish or not if you wanted to be a Christian.

It's not exactly extra-biblical. This was the debate between Paul and Cephas. Cephas was a representative of the Church in Jerusalem which was headed by James the Just, the brother of Jesus.

Paul appears to claim his authority comes directly from God and not from the Church in Jerusalem, when he claims he went into the wilderness following his conversion and did not seek guidance from the Church leadership. He is establishing his independence from Church teaching.

Cephas held that to be a Christian one had first to be circumcised -- which was the apparent position of the Jerusalem Church. Paul argued otherwise.

Is there a searchable online Bible?

There certainly are. Just google the phrase.

You used to claim that you knew the Bible by heart. Sigh.

I exaggerated for effect.
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Hatty
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As the Gemini Twins, I expect they will have an important role in navigation.

This is true of all the 'Megalithic' saints. James' legend says he arrived in Spain in a rudderless boat which is identical to the 'Celtic' saints who routinely crossed over from Ireland in unoared coracles, millstones, et al. implying a mastery of the wind and waves beyond the ken of the rest of us. The name Compostela, 'field of stars', suggests 'steering by the stars' and astronomical observation, "campo" being a wide flat area a la Salisbury Plain.

Cephas was a representative of the Church in Jerusalem which was headed by James the Just, the brother of Jesus.

Cephas is translated as 'rock', hence the identification with Peter. Wiki says In Aramaic, it could be כיפא. which in Hebrew is 'kipa' i.e. hat (p and f in Hebrew are the same letter) or 'chief'. Sounds vaguely Kabbalistic what with the crown at the top of the 'tree of life', at any rate probably a metaphorical.or honorary title like Caesar etc.
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Mick Harper
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I have amended the text in accordance with Ishmael's information, dropping James the Just. It now reads
---------------------------------------
Megalithic Saints (Cont)

But the Megalithics chose an anti-canon. For instance John the Baptist is considered a Megalithic figure because he is a cousin but sometime rival of Jesus; Mary Magdalen is the Megalithic counterpart to the Virgin Mary; Martha is Megalithc because she is the Magdalen's sister; John, although a disciple, was previously John the Baptist's disciple but his main Megalithic claim to fame is that he is a 'Son of Thunder' along with his twin-brother James and thus the pair of them take on the mantle of Castor and Pollux* who have important functions in navigation.

* Jesus gave John and James 'the name of Boanerges, which means the Sons of Thunder' (Mark 3,17); Castor and Pollux were the sons of Zeus, the god of thunder.
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Mick Harper
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Megalithic Saints (Cont)

But the Megalithics also purloined Christian figures which had relevant symbols attached -- or the Megalithics did their own attaching, it is not always clear. Anybody with dragon or angelic (angels = messengers) associations was sure to enter the Megalithic lists for instance. But the Megalithics were certainly not averse to creating their own saints. Scions of Irish, Welsh or Breton royal houses living in the Dark Ages might turn up with 'St' attached anywhere (for some reason having Hungarian associations was a plus too) but of course all the more prominent 'missionaries' from the Western British Isles got canonised very early on before the Vatican was able to apply some control over the process.

The question the reader should always ask is: 'Does this place and this saint seem Christian or Megalithic?' Let's take somewhere like Brentor, with its St Michael's Church on the summit. The catechism would proceed along these lines:
Q: Would a Christian build a church on the top of an isolated crag on Dartmoor? Answer: Probably not but Christians were wont to build on formerly sacred sites so it cannot be ruled out.
Q: Would a Megalithic build a 'church' on the top of an isolated crag on Dartmoor? Yes, crags make excellent sighting posts and Brentor is on a major Megalithic route.
Q: Would a Christian name his church after St Michael? Answer: Probably not since Michael is fairly obscure (four brief mentions in the Bible) but it is possible.
Q: Would a Megalithic name his 'church' after St Michael? Answer: Certainly. Almost all the churches at the western end of this Megalithic route are named in his honour. Michael has twin Megalithic associations -- he is both a dragon-slayer and the head of the angels.
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Hatty
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Hungarians are notable horse-riders. Or gypsy-tinkers.

The Irish are both of course. Oddly enough, the Irish for stone is cloch, which indicates a neat Megalithic etymology for clock (in Welsh cloch means 'bell' apparently).
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Ishmael


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Mick Harper wrote:
* Jesus gave John and James 'the name of Boanerges, which means the Sons of Thunder' (Mark 3,17); Castor and Pollux were the sons of Zeus, the god of thunder and their earthly father, Zebedee, is a variation of Zeus-Pater (Father Zeus) -- or Jupiter.
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Mick Harper
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I'm not putting that in. The secret of successful revisionism is only frightening the horses enough to make them kick the barn door open.
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