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Paying For Megalithia (British History)
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Ishmael


In: Toronto
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Mick Harper wrote:
And yet this surely cannot be enough. It is reasonably clear that even down to the Druids there was a scientific and intellectual basis to the otherwise mundane world of ordering trade and capital accumulation, witness the astronomical level reached in the larger stone circles. What is harder to understand is that this scientific and intellectual product seems to have no relevance to the actual demands of trade and capital.


Completely wrong Mick. It's the basis of the entire system.
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nemesis8


In: byrhfunt
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Mick Harper wrote:
However, since you raised the point, the Megalithics placed a corvid at every wishing well which crowed loudly whenever somebody tried to evade payment. And remember tests have shown that corvids can remember individual human beings for up to seven years.


Hmmm.... No disrespect to the crow...but...
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Hatty
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In: Berkshire
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When you looked at the proposed cover picture did the dolmen remind you of the Three Fates/Sisters? Subliminally perhaps?

Washers, or Watchers as I prefer to call them, at the Ford are pretty forbidding. They turn up in folklore as banshees or old women who wash clothes, usually blood-stained, at fords and tend to make quite a racket. They are also said to see into the future, something that corvids are supposed to do.

Maybe a pet crow-lookout adopted/was adopted by them much as happens in villages, farmyards, estates. Once the crones' services are no longer needed, folk-memory replaces them with their nearest equivalent?
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nemesis8


In: byrhfunt
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Fords and areas close to fords are ideal slaughter sites for men as beasts will funnel across a ford. Washers/watchers would be needed after a slaughter, crows would be naturally attracted, and could be tamed.

A murder of crows...?

As you say folk memory takes over??
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Hatty
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In: Berkshire
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I don't think fords on well-used main routes are slaughter sites, on the contrary they need to be safe and sound (and paid for).

Birds, especially white ones, that hover near houses are unlucky, if one enters through a window someone inside will die or something equally horrible will happen, as is inevitable at some point. It is a surprisingly deep conviction. An aunt of mine, a woman of the world, would ban any images of birds, not so much as a feather could remain indoors. It's connected to the spirits of the dead, which seems especially corvid-related (in Cornwall it's ravens who are guardians of King Arthur's soul).

Folk-memory plays tricks. Places such as wells, fords, chapels, crossroads that were necessary to travellers are only inhabited (haunted?) by birds. Corvids transfer their attention to modern equivalents such as motorway service stations or wherever the pickings are easier.
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nemesis8


In: byrhfunt
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The crow/crone link looks good to me. (just me)

Badb is a example

http://reclaimingthedarkgoddess.blogspot.com/2010/09/badb.html

She helps soldiers (thats hunters) cross streams...
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Hatty
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In: Berkshire
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She helps soldiers (that's hunters) cross streams...

Why would soldiers or hunters need a crone to help them across a stream? Being 'helped' sounds like you have to pay up to be allowed to get to the other side.
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nemesis8


In: byrhfunt
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Crones tend to be helpful, before your christians got at em. They are part of the cycle, maiden, mother crone.

Nothing wrong with night as long as it is followed by day.
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nemesis8


In: byrhfunt
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Hatty wrote:
Birds, especially white ones, that hover near houses are unlucky, if one enters through a window someone inside will die .

Yep dont break the day/night cycle.

Hatty wrote:
An aunt of mine, a woman of the world, would ban any images of birds, not so much as a feather could remain indoors. .

Wise lady....

Hatty wrote:
It's connected to the spirits of the dead, which seems especially corvid-related (in Cornwall it's ravens who are guardians of King Arthur's soul). .


Arthur will arise. Day follows night.

Believe me it will happen.
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Hatty
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In: Berkshire
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Crows were certainly helpful up in the crows' nests to sailors needing a landing place.

The supernatural aura surrounding certain birds seems a later overlay, superstition literally 'over-standing' an earlier time when birds followed dolphins following fish were followed by sailors. Or something like that.
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nemesis8


In: byrhfunt
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Another ancient hunting hag/crone goddess...tied in with wells and steams......

http://dutchie.org/goddess-cailleach/

More I look at this...

Mick Harper wrote:
From The Megalithic Empire

A question that arises regarding Megalithic society is 'What happens to Megalithics when they grow old?' Wise women are so endemic in folklore as to suggest that the Megalithics solved the problem by giving their less active elderly members, a largely female group, sedentary employment as toll collectors, well-attendants, beacon-keepers, Watchers at the Ford, who might conceivably be very unpopular on account of a) demanding tolls from people and b) cursing them if they failed to pay.


More I wonder...

Still I normally head off in the opposite direction, then turn round and trail behind...
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Ishmael


In: Toronto
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Mick Harper wrote:
From The Megalithic Empire

A question that arises regarding Megalithic society is 'What happens to Megalithics when they grow old?' Wise women are so endemic in folklore as to suggest that the Megalithics solved the problem by giving their less active elderly members, a largely female group, sedentary employment as toll collectors, well-attendants, beacon-keepers, Watchers at the Ford, who might conceivably be very unpopular on account of a) demanding tolls from people and b) cursing them if they failed to pay.


What's the relationship between a pension and a Pension?
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Mick Harper
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In: London
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Well done, my boy. Yes, pensione (European for 'small hotel') is clearly what elderly Megalithics, too upscale to be standing around in the open air at fords etc, are given. Their 'pension' is then a cut from the travellers' hotel charges.

In Britain a similar connection is observed in The Megalithic Empire whereby pubs are built alongside fords and the pubs given over to Megalithics in order that the ford can be maintained with the proceeds. The two are frequently found together today with the pub still bearing its Megalithic name eg The Angel, The Swan etc.
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nemesis8


In: byrhfunt
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There were two slender spears of battle
upon the other side of the carlin
her face was blue-black, of the lustre of coal,
And her bone tufted tooth was like rusted bone.

In her head was one deep pool-like eye
Swifter than a star in winter
Upon her head gnarled brushwood
like the clawed old wood of the aspen root

These crones associated with black cheeks, grey hair, blood, one eye etc its all fire/beacon. imagery.

Still
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Hatty
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In: Berkshire
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She seems to have the appearance of a blacksmith but described as waving her hammer over the grass of Ireland to make it grow, which sounds like she's being turned into a sort of nature-goddess perhaps to fit in better with folklorists' ideas of fertility rituals and less 'industrial'.

The hag from the Dane Hills of Leicestershire, Black Annis, is blue-faced and has iron claws. Modern technology draws on familiar stories; Bluetooth takes its name from King Harald Bluetooth who is alleged to have united Denmark warring tribes and turned them into Christians.
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