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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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Welcome Jorn
Days in most cultures are linked to the planets.
Monday=The Moon dies etc
Death water and salt are all linked to flow and purification.
Laugardag looks interesting as if it were associated with flow, etc it might signal the end/death of a lunar cycle flowing into the new.
So could Laugardag have been an ancient day, existing between lunar cycles, which was later inserted into the modern 7 day week?
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Jorn
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| Wile E. Coyote wrote: | Welcome Jorn
Days in most cultures are linked to the planets.
Monday=The Moon dies etc
Death water and salt are all linked to flow and purification.
Laugardag looks interesting as if it were associated with flow, etc it might signal the end/death of a lunar cycle flowing into the new.
So could Laugardag have been an ancient day, existing between lunar cycles, which was later inserted into the modern 7 day week? |
Why do you think the seven day week is modern in Scandinavia?
Dag = day is also the rune for D, and was not connected to death. It seems to have been connected with light, summer, brightness etc.
For purification it is the Laug from boiled Juniper that seems to have been the most used. Juniper is called "Eine" that directly translated means "the one"
As for the connection with death and water, I have never seen it connected with death ever in what I have read in Scandinavian History, but I cant say it is untrue.
The fire rune Kaun=torch seems to be connected with death, and also Naud = need, hunger
The Hagal=Hail rune is also connected to death and not just holy, in that something needs to die in order for something else to grow.
There are those that think the Norse believed in reincarnation within the family, and that the reason the goddess of the underworld was called Hel=whole, heal, was that you went there to become whole again.
We don't know what the Norse called all the planets, but Venus seems to have been called the Morning star and Mars the Bloodstar.
The etymology of the word star can perhaps best be explained with a sentence about a Viking ship:
The steerman stood in the stern on starboard side, and steered his ship after the stars. The oldest Norse bible is also called stjorn and also means a guide or something one should steer after.
All in all, it seems that the stars were more of a tool for navigation and timekeeping, than holy objects.
Scandinavia is in many ways the land of the amateurs, as we did not have neither a priestly caste, nor a warrior caste. Timekeeping was decentralized, and the tool they used, seemed to have been the runic calendar.
A Runic calendar (also Rune staff or Runic Almanac) is a perpetual calendar based on the 19 year long Metonic cycle of the Moon. Runic calendars were written on parchment or carved onto staves of wood, bone, or horn. The oldest one known, and the only one from the Middle Ages, is the Nyk�ping staff, believed to date from the 13th century. Most of the several thousand which survive are wooden calendars dating from the 16th and the 17th centuries. During the 18th century, the Runic calendars had a renaissance, and around 1800, such calendars were made in the form of tobacco boxes in brass.
A typical Runic calendar consisted of several horizontal lines of symbols, one above the other.
Special days like solstices, equinoxes, and celebrations (including Christian holidays and feasts) were marked with additional lines of symbols.
The calendar does not rely on knowledge of the length of the tropical year or of the occurrence of leap years. It is set at the beginning of each year by observing the first full moon after the winter solstice. The first full moon also marked the date of Disting, a pagan feast and a fair day." |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runic_calendar
The only time it seems Norway had a real professional priesthood, were the time when the Catholic church ruled. After the reformation, the priests were given a farm to farm themselves, in exchange for doing the priestly chores.
I am not even sure it was the Roman Catholic Church though, as the saints in Scandinavia are different to those that the Catholic Church acknowledge, and Scandinavians seems to have been infected with Christianity by the Irish, and share many saints with them and the British.
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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| Jorn wrote: | | Wile E. Coyote wrote: | Welcome Jorn
Days in most cultures are linked to the planets.
Monday=The Moon dies etc
Death water and salt are all linked to flow and purification.
Laugardag looks interesting as if it were associated with flow, etc it might signal the end/death of a lunar cycle flowing into the new.
So could Laugardag have been an ancient day, existing between lunar cycles, which was later inserted into the modern 7 day week? |
Why do you think the seven day week is modern in Scandinavia?
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You think the Northmen always had a 7 day week?
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Jorn
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| Wile E. Coyote wrote: | | You think the Northmen always had a 7 day week? |
Of course not for ever, but it does not seem like something that the Christians brought with them.
All the Germanic peoples share the names of the day of the week, but we all use Latin names for the months.
The names of the months were not equal in the Germanic areas, as they seem to have been adapted to the local climate. Yule and the Yule month seem to have been shared, and the Yule month is still used in modern Scandinavian to some degree for December.
While Easter might be a spring festival in England and Germany it is usually still winter for many in Norway and Sweden.
When you live so scattered as Scandinavians, you needed something to organize Tings, markets and Blots around, that was common for all.
The Scandinavians' work year is today focused around the week rather than month, so people still say, let's meet on Wednesday week 42, or are you free in week 14. The school year is similar in that the dates vary, but that it always starts Monday in week 38 IIRC. I am not sure how long we have done this, but the runic calendars contain no months IIRC but the weeks are numbered.
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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| Jorn wrote: | | The Scandinavians work year is today focused around the week rather than month, so people still say, let's meet in Wednesday week 42, or are you free in week 14. The School year is similar in that the dates vary, but that it always start Monday in week 38 IIRC. I am not sure how long we have done this, but the runic calendars contain no months IIRC, but the weeks are numbered. |
I had a quick look, from what I can see on the runic calendars, the days of the week also tend to be consistently numbered rather than named. So it's first day of week.....
I could be wrong.
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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| Before I continue, I want to say something about the runes Hagal and Laug. (NB No nazi mysticism) |
Can we please have lots of Nazi mysticism. This forum is for radical revisionism and especially seeks out non-standard sources. First off, there is nothing wrong with being a Nazi per se, it's just another political ideology; and secondly even if there were that would not disqualify it.
What's all this about, Wiley? Every day of the week has 'day' attached to it without anything about dying. I know it's been put up elsewhere but it's worth quoting The Megalithic Empire on this subject since it is a blend of apparently Classical and apparently Scandinavian.
| The seven days of the week list the seven anciently known bodies of the solar system: Sunday (sun), Monday (moon), Tuesday (Tiw, Fr. mardi = Mars), Wednesday (Woden, Fr. mercredi = Mercury), Thursday (Thor, Fr. jeudi = Jupiter), Friday (Freya, Fr. vendredi = Venus), Saturday (Saturn). A seven-day week of course fits the 28-day moon cycle month though what humanity would have done if the solar system had not had seven visible bodies is anybody's guess. | |
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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| Mick Harper wrote: | | The seven days of the week list the seven anciently known bodies of the solar system: Sunday (sun), Monday (moon), Tuesday (Tiw, Fr. mardi = Mars), Wednesday (Woden, Fr. mercredi = Mercury), Thursday (Thor, Fr. jeudi = Jupiter), Friday (Freya, Fr. vendredi = Venus), Saturday (Saturn). A seven-day week of course fits the 28-day moon cycle month though what humanity would have done if the solar system had not had seven visible bodies is anybody’s guess. |
As I keep on saying, a 7 day week does not fit a 28 day moon cycle as a moon cycle is not 28 days.
The Moon makes a complete orbit around the Earth every 27.3 days and the periodic variations in the geometry of the Earth--Moon--Sun system are responsible for the phases of the moon, which repeat every 29.5 days
Or if you want to be precise a mean (average) interval of 29.530589 days
(29 days, 12 hours, 44 minutes, 02.9 seconds).
This might seem a lot like 28 days but if you are trying to organise an accurate calendar it quickly makes a difference.
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Jorn
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| Mick Harper wrote: | | Can we please have lots of Nazi mysticism. This forum is for radical revisionism and especially seeks out non-standard sources. First off, there is nothing wrong with being a Nazi per se, it's just another political ideology; and secondly even if there were that would not disqualify it. |
I have nothing against Nazis or their science, and I don't believe in the holocaust.
The reason I don't like their mysticism on runes though is that it is new age religion, rather than trying to go back, and try to understand the sources we do have.
On a side note. I was reading "stjorn", the oldest Norse bible, and instead of temple, you find the word mystery. Understood this way, initiated in a mystery might have just meant that you joined a temple, and not that some secret knowledge were transmitted.
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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Well, that's one in the eye for me.
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Jorn
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| Wile E. Coyote wrote: | I had a quick look, from what I can see on the runic calendars, the days of the week also tend to be consistently numbered rather than named. So it's first day of week.....
I could be wrong. |
I have been reading about Viking timekeeping, and you are correct.
The week was of a special importance in the old calendar that might also be called "viknatal" (literally "counting of weeks"). In the period from the settlement around 870 AD up to almost 1100 a year, or rather two semesters, would consist of an integer number of weeks, that is normally 52 but sometimes 53 so as to get the correct length of the average year.(52) With the "misseristal"(half year number) and "viknatal" (week number) combined people would give a date by a phrase like "fimmtudagur à tÃundu viku sumars/ Thursday(the fifth day) in the tenth week of summer"
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http://www.raunvis.hi.is/~thv/t_t.html
The article is quite interesting, or at least I thought so.
Except for a few centuries, the Icelandic method fits spot on the runic calendar.
For numbers the Norse used the futhark, in the same way as the Greeks used the Alphabet.
Fe =1
Ur =2
Thurs =3
etc.
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Hatty
Site Admin
In: Berkshire
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In English the Hebrew word for mystery תעלומה could be transliterated as tolomy. Ptolemy perhaps. (Claudius suggests he was lame which as Wiley has made plain is a bit of a give-away). Not far off 'temple' either.
[The days of the Hebrew week are counted 1 - 6, the seventh day, Sabbath, being of course reserved].
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Hatty
Site Admin
In: Berkshire
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| Laugardag for Saturday could thus mean washing day or the day for Law or even ancestor day, as we flow from our ancestors. |
According to Wiki the Ptolemies were also known as "the Lagids or Lagides". Hmm. Wonder why they were said to 'rule jointly with their wives who were often also their sisters'. Sounds rather like three-in-one.
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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| Jorn wrote: | | The week was of a special importance in the old calendar that might also be called "viknatal" (literally "counting of weeks"). |
I simply note that vik appears according to Jorn to be related to week
Viking = according to orthodox etymology says bay, inlet people.
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Jorn
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| Wile E. Coyote wrote: | | Jorn wrote: | | The week was of a special importance in the old calendar that might also be called "viknatal" (literally "counting of weeks"). |
I simply note that vik appears according to Jorn to be related to week
Viking = according to orthodox etymology says bay, inlet people. |
The week root is the same in English.
weak = bendable
wick = bay
wick = candle wick, the bendable part of a candle.
winding = (scan : vikling) the turns in an transformer
winter is also probably of the same root as something that turns, so the old English might have counted winters rather than years as well.
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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O.N. is vika "sea-mile," originally "change of oar."
It looks like a classic example of stop...... start
Just like a Sabbath. rest...work.
I suspect bathing (someting we do after a messy task) day, is another stop....start.
Maybe bay is another.....
The Viking Calendar appears to start from seasons winter/summer and work backwards towards the concept of week.
From the little I can see the northmen measured their age in numbers of winters survived and started divided up periods by 2.
I cant see any decent sources yet.
I suspect it has little to do with heavenly orbs.....
Which its a bit of a downer, as up till now the ME has been my gospel on calendars....I am starting to wonder if the world was created in 7 days after all.
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