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Oakey Dokey
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In Genesis the word in Hebrew for 'eating' as in good-for-eating can also mean consume as in knowledge (learning), to take in. Similar to the tree being a 'gate' or 'door'. Because the Hebrew language can be changeable it's hard to get a definitive translation.
http://www.accuracyingenesis.com/g3.html
So it's like saying 'eating the knowledge', which fits better for the story, imo.
Also the translation for garden can mean 'enclosure' or 'fortification' and is of a protective nature.
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Ray
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| Although, on the literal plain, Caesar's statement that Gauls went to Britain for their Druidic training suggests that "reaching Avalon" might also be a metaphor for the actual journey to Anglesey or Stonehenge or Skara Brae (or wherever these initiatory processes physically took place). |
Or it might be a metaphor for an altered state of consciousness. To me the myths/stories suggest a quest for higher knowledge - whatever you take that to mean.
You've got me wondering now how Arthur at Avalon etc. ties in with the belief that Arthur, son of Uther Pendragon = Arth Vawr (Great Bear), the Successor to the constellation Draco.
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Oakey Dokey
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Here's one for you:
Try to find out what you think the story of Pinnocchio is about. Search the meaning of the name and then look at it in a new light.
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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Well, it's Italian for pine-nut which is related but a bit of a stretch. And the original Pinocchio gets hanged on a gallows, which is also a bit of a stretch. (No pun intended.)
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Oakey Dokey
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Hmm sort of, he's a child of wood who is hanged from the 'big oak' gallows.
Geppetto is his 'carpenter' father as in the Jesus story (Christmas)
We celebrate Christmas with a fir tree (Xmas tree with lights).
In ancient times the cult of the pine and fir was associated with Dionysius, the god-child eaten by the Titans. In the winter solstice (Xmas) there was a celebration of the resurrection of Dionysius by torchlight (Xmas candles)
Maybe a coincidence?
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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As I understand it, Pinocchio is a story composed de novo in the nineteenth century. It would be interesting to know how these various elements (which are not, at first sight, traditional kids' story material) got into the mind of the author. Is it all happening in a great stream-of-unconsciousness? Or is he doing it deliberately? Or is he taking an actual folk-tale and running with it?
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Oakey Dokey
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Mick Harper wrote: | As I understand it, Pinocchio is a story composed de novo in the nineteenth century. It would be interesting to know how these various elements (which are not, at first sight, traditional kids' story material) got into the mind of the author. Is it all happening in a great stream-of-unconsciousness? Or is he doing it deliberately? Or is he taking an actual folk-tale and running with it? |
This is quite possibly why a lot of art and literature has hidden meanings, and none more so than those written by freemasons -- such as the writer of Pinocchio, Carlo Collodi.
http://www.bookfinder.us/review8/1588273997.html
&
http://www.kirjasto.sci.fi/collodi.htm
I seem to keep coming full circle with the investigations. This tree religion is far from dead in our own times. It's just quieter and behind the scenes. But the fingerprints of its practices are noticeable everywhere.
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Ishmael
In: Toronto
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"birch" = " "birth" ?
But why did we worship TREES???? Of all things!
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Oakey Dokey
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Yes the Oak tree is a mystical tree which breaches the sky/underworld thru our realm. I remember a translation of Genesis which described the tree of life as being possibly the 'door of wood (wooden door)' - specifically Oak wood. That fits nicely with the apple of wisdom being an Oak Gall.
Anyway Oak trees are very frequently hit by lightning, at least they used to be when they were left to mature. Odin and Zeus are one and the same, the fact that they are both associated with the tree is no accident. To the ancients of the Oak tree worshipping religions, the tree itself is part of the trinity and the trinity's most holy representation in the customs and beliefs. Even Diane (whichever spelling you choose) was worshipped in an Oak grove. It's never been noted as anything other than an 'oddity' that Gallows derives its name from trees where thieves, murderers and general bad dudes met their premature end. Gallows tended to be made from Oak until the reason for the tree-type was no longer important.
For instance read this Wiki passage:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eihwaz
It says that Odin was hung from a tree for nine days(a yew tree) but 'may' be attributed to an older source which was an Oak.
The tree mentioned is not important, just what it represents - the 'WORLD TREE'. Which for most is the Oak. Interestingly the crucifixion is translated as a gallows. And Odin was pierced by his own spear whilst hanging on the world tree for nine days. Where have I heard that before?
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DPCrisp
In: Bedfordshire
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| I remember a translation of Genesis which described the tree of life as being possibly the 'door of wood (wooden door)' - specifically Oak wood. That fits nicely with the apple of wisdom being an Oak Gall. |
That's interesting. So the secret of (eternal) life is
a) (Wireloopian) eternal life through death;
b) the cycle of life and death.
| Anyway Oak trees are very frequently hit by lightning at least they used to be when they were left to mature. |
Oh yeah, don't forget: whichever is the tallest tree in the forest is irrelevant in hedgerows, where each tree towers above its immediate surroundings.
Oak is the main woodland timber tree, but not necessarily the main hedgerow tree: there is much more variation in those. (Note also that oak doesn't transplant very well, so it didn't feature highly in the nursery trade for hedgerows.) The dominance of oak in the woodlands must tell us something: either the woods were owned by the big nobs and oak is (therefore) associated with all things powerful and important; or the woods were 'run' by commoners and oak dominates because of a myriad individual preferences for the most highly prized or auspicious tree. (I dunno which was the case.)
If I remember the sweeping generalisation about the retreat of the Ice Age ice sheets right, grasses then conifers are first in -- and the far north is dominated by conifers -- followed by beech (which is edible) and birch (which has been described as Man's best friend coz of its useful wood, bark, resin and wotnot). So how come Scotland is all conifery (as expected) and England is all oaky instead of birchy?
Oak makes for a 'superior' woodland, apparently. Its canopy is not so dense that it excludes all underbrush, bits drop off and continue to support beetles and funguses and stuff... all in all, it supports the most diverse flora and fauna. Looks to me like oak is a deliberate policy.
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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| Looks to me like oak is a deliberate policy. |
More than that. If you look at all the various types of oak, I think one will eventually have to come to the conclusion that the oak is not a natural tree at all.
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Hatty
Site Admin
In: Berkshire
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| If you look at all the various types of oak, I think one will eventually have to come to the conclusion that the oak is not a natural tree at all. |
I have come to the conclusion that oak may have been a generic term for tree; looking at Etymonline it says
O.E. treo, treow "tree" (also "wood"), from P.Gmc. *trewan (cf. O.Fris. tre, O.S. trio, O.N. tre, Goth. triu), from PIE *deru-/*doru- "oak" (cf. Skt. dru "tree, wood," daru "wood, log;" Gk. drys "oak," doru "spear;" O.C.S. drievo "tree, wood;" Serb. drvo "tree," drva "wood;" Rus. drevo "tree, wood;" Czech drva; Pol. drwa "wood;" Lith. derva "pine wood;" O.Ir. daur, Welsh derwen "oak," Albanian drusk "oak"). Importance of the oak in mythology is reflected in the recurring use of words for "oak" to mean "tree." In O.E. and M.E., also "thing made of wood," especially the cross of the Crucifixion and a gallows
Druids and trees are clearly linked; which came first?
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Ishmael
In: Toronto
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| Mick Harper wrote: | | Looks to me like oak is a deliberate policy. |
More than that. If you look at all the various types of oak, I think one will eventually have to come to the conclusion that the oak is not a natural tree at all. |
Why?
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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Because everytime I look, the oak (which I, like everybody else here, thought was 'just a tree') turns out to be a whole tribe of trees, all of whom seem to have incredibly useful features. Now maybe this is true of all trees. or maybe the oak is just naturally unique like that, but it strikes me that it might also be a sign of ancient domestication. In other words everything that later taxonomists can recognise as a type of oak is merely a domesticated-gone-feral artificially altered oak (or whatever is the next tree along in the table)..
Now it is a curious thing but nobody ever talks about the domestication of trees -- though whole rainforests are chopped down describing the domestication of plants and animals. And yet trees are the easiest of all to domesticate since all it takes is a bit of root-grafting (or whatever they call it) and...well, I dunno, like I said, the subject has not even been recognised yet.
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Hatty
Site Admin
In: Berkshire
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The case for 'tree-domestication' is very persuasive but not sure if the oak has multiple functions; is it especially useful apart from timber? But it's true there's a bewildering variety of oaks, for example, holm-oaks look nothing like English oak trees (they are 'native' to the Mediterranean). There are species, such as the willow, which have medicinal properties, which would clearly be worth cultivating and experimenting with. I have a feeling that grafting techniques might be relatively recent developments.
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