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CABINET OF CURIOSITIES (NEW CONCEPTS)
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Mick Harper
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I reject all arguments that have the word 'moral' in them. It's just the word you reach for when you run out of arguments. For instance, the Nazis had far too much morality, not a vacuum. They regarded getting rid of Jews as a moral crusade. Not killing them, that was just a way of getting rid of them, and not their first choice either. Nazis are people too.

The Holocaust was never a Nazi policy, just what some Nazis ended up doing. This is an important distinction to be made the day after Momentum have announced they are running for the top job here in Britain. Leninists are people too. And murderous swine.
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Mick Harper
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Is Rebecca Long-Bailey a murderous swine? Well, here's the problem. If you are a truly radical party you are advocating things which most people won't support. It might be good for them, they might in time support it, but right now they are not going to let you carry these policies out because they won't let you anywhere near power. So far, so bad for you.

But if you are a vanguard radical party then you are committed to policies most people won't support but you have a means to get to power without the people being able to do anything about it. So far, so bad for...

This is the situation facing Rebecca Long-Bailey if the cards eventually fall in Momentum's favour. One of two things is going to happen
1. If they turn out to be just radical socialists then they will do things like nationalising all and sundry which they will be allowed to do and not much harm will be done.
2. If they turn out to be truly Bolshevist socialists and carry out a root-and-branch restructuring of private property then they will not be allowed to do it. But they are the government. So either they will use force to get their way or force will be used to stop them.

Either way murderous swine will come to the fore. If you think a government will prefer to be put up against a wall and shot rather than have quite a lot of other people put up against a wall and shot, then you have a shaky grasp of the human condition.

I understand I am being apocalyptic and I understand that Rebecca Long-Bailey maybe wouldn't know what I was going on about, she wouldn't hurt a fly, maybe not even a foetus, but Jon Lansman does and probably would. I am only pointing out that nobody plans for the apocalypse, it is just a logical outcome when radical vanguardism comes up against the broad masses. If it didn't, you wouldn't need to be a vanguard party in the first place.
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Chad


In: Ramsbottom
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I don’t believe Lansman’s influence will endure much beyond the current leadership campaign. His decision to jump on the ‘antisemite witchhunt’ bandwagon, could ultimately lead to his downfall.

The fact that every one of the leadership contenders have signed up to the ten commandments of the BoD would suggest he has a tight grip on the reins… but the Labour Party (particularly the left) has long been openly anti-Zionist and (somewhat less openly) antisemitic, so these pledges will not sit at all comfortably.

This letter to Jon Lansman, from Bury Momentum (and I must stress I have no connection) was written some months ago and hostility towards him has grown even greater since the General Election debacle.

http://www.labouragainstthewitchhunt.org/tag/jon-lansman/

His days of influence are numbered…
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Mick Harper
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This is most interesting. I had assumed that this kind of thing would have been of supreme uninterest to Marxists and that the whole debate would be framed in terms of whatever line happens to work best in the circumstances. It is difficult for me to envisage any properly trained Marxist having a view on anti-Semitism or Palestine, other than to exploit the passions that arise in others.

However I did realise my praxis might need revising with the Chris Williamson case. His entirely uncontentious remarks -- judged from a Marxian perspective or from any other -- resulted not only in the severest punishment available, excommunication, but his Momentum colleagues allowing it to go through without lifting a finger to save him. This would simply not have been allowed in a properly disciplined organisation.

But it does seem we are in a slightly different stage of development in entryism. Just as Militant showed that their model -- mobilising tens of thousands -- was superior to the previous IS model -- mobilising thousands -- which was superior to the IMG model of mobilising hundreds, so Momentum is showing what can be done by mobilising hundreds of thousands. Clearly conspiratorial methods are difficult on this scale -- though they work well enough at the constituency level. Whence and whither Bury CLP?

As to Lansman himself I had assumed that only old age could finish the brute off but this too might be over-sanguine. These messianic leaders are surprisingly old fashioned in their methods. I remember chatting to an attractive middle aged woman who was expatiating on her days In The Movement and the look of horror that crossed her face when I said, "So I suppose you slept with X", naming a particularly evil-looking Chief Theoretician. She had clearly assumed she had been one of the few not the many. But when the many number in their hundreds of thousands, I see what you mean...
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Chad


In: Ramsbottom
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...superior to the previous IS model

That takes me back a bit...

I remember being at an International Socialist event in Stockport, where Tony Benn was the guest speaker. The venue came under attack from supporters from the National Front and we had to barricade ourselves in until the police arrived... Fascist bastards! (The police that is... not NF.)

Those were the days.
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Mick Harper
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Yes, the decline of the radical right has proved to be a severe difficulty. As usual, Britain leads the way even if it tends nowadays not to lead. This is what most infuriates me about socialism generally. While our radical spirits are obsessed with whether utilities should be public or private (it varies) the world is in severe difficulty.
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Wile E. Coyote


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Mick Harper wrote:

But it does seem we are in a slightly different stage of development in entryism. Just as Militant showed that their model -- mobilising tens of thousands -- was superior to the previous IS model -- mobilising thousands -- which was superior to the IMG model of mobilising hundreds, so Momentum is showing what can be done by mobilising hundreds of thousands. Clearly conspiratorial methods are difficult on this scale -- though they work well enough at the constituency level.

It seems to me the cunning plan is to get Momentum and Unite to back Rebecca. The downside to what is a Jon - Len alliance is that because this plan is so transparent, Unison will back Keir and the GMB will back Lisa, fearing the Momentum - Unite attempt to stitch up the direction of Labour for the next 5 years or so. The Labour MPs are pretty irrelevant now.
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Mick Harper
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I don't disagree but you've left out the constituency Labour parties, as an entity in themselves, and which are now ninety plus per cent controlled by Momentum. That by the way is vastly better than Militant ever managed. Even so, it's softly softly. Re-selection has always been a central tenet of entryism because MPs last a lifetime (look at poor old Denis Skinner being carried in his coffin through the voting lobby, 'Knock once for yea, Den') but weren't selected by Momentum.

And that's hugely important. Left-wing people are not necessarily Momentum people. In fact they often turn out be the worst of all the class enemies. And even the leftest of MPs, even possibly Momentum MPs themselves, urge caution when it comes to mandatory re-selection.
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Mick Harper
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According to the Guardian you're at your unhappiest at aged 46.2 (or something). That sounds about right but why? Avoid saloon bar arguments about kids growing up. I never owned a pub but it still applies to me.
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Wile E. Coyote


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I reject all arguments that have the word 'moral' in them.


I put a lot down to mass hysteria and moral panics.

A case in point, is the moral panic over modern slavery and trafficking. The container driver of the Essex lorry will probably get 10-15 years or so, for what really is wanting a better life for himself, and a disregard of health and safety, which is exactly the same motivation as the victims of this tragic accident. He is zero risk to the public, or of repeat offending.
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Mick Harper
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You've used the word moral rather a lot. What is the difference between a moral panic and an ordinary panic? What is the connection between mass hysteria and moral panics? Is 'modern slavery and trafficking' considered a moral business whenever young girls and sex are involved, or generally?

The container lorry driver was, as I recall, British albeit Irish/British and was bettering himself by becoming a career criminal for an Irish criminal family firm looking for new opportunities once their traditional business -- smuggling across the Irish border -- disappeared after the Belfast Agreement. He will go back to a life of crime as soon as he is let out of gaol.

Whether 10-15 years in gaol is the correct tariff for the manslaughter of several dozen people I leave to others. There is a difference between 'an accident' and 'misadventure in the furtherance of crime'. If the first, the driver could not have been charged with anything or, if he contributed it in some way, a minor sentence. If the latter, he gets the book thrown at him because society wants to discourage this kind of thing. All career criminals understand and accept this. There is no moral dimension offered by anybody, it is all strictly transactional.
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Grant



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We should judge people for their actions rather than trying to get inside their minds, which is clearly an impossible job. This lorry driver failed to turn off the freezer unit and lots of people died. He should serve a life sentence in Vietnam pour encourager les autres.
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Mick Harper
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We should judge people for their actions

If that's the case, and all he did was forget to turn a freezer unit off, then I would think a fifty pound fine is about right.
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Chad


In: Ramsbottom
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Mick Harper wrote:
According to the Guardian you're at your unhappiest at aged 46.2 (or something). That sounds about right but why? Avoid saloon bar arguments about kids growing up. I never owned a pub but it still applies to me.

Middle age depression has also been observed in chimps and orangs, so the answer has to be applicable to them too.
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Chad


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It has to be hormonal.
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