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Atlantis, the Great Flood & all that (NEW CONCEPTS)
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Leon



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Right, turns out that there is a recent map of loess distribution in Europe published by Dr Dagmar Haase at the Helmholtz Association of German Research Centres. I can see that a loess tongue does indeed reach from northern France to southern Poland, but of course that's no discovery of Otto Muck's, it's well known. Problem is, when I print the map, the legend is no more legible than it is on the monitor, so it's impossible to know what the different colours mean.

When I saved it as a computer file and printed it, it came out with more complex coloration than printing it directly from the website.

Maybe someone else can determine something more definite. Here's where to find it:

www.eurekalert.org/multimedia/pub/5879.php?from=10489
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Chad


In: Ramsbottom
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Try this link:

http://www.ufz.de/data/European_Loess_Map_hires7613.jpg
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Leon



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Thanks, Chad. It looked like a better bet because it's at 6000 x 4000 pixels, where as the other is 400 x 280, but it doesn't print, and the legend is unreadable on the monitor. I'll give it another try, but it doesn't seem to be available for reproduction.
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Chad


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but it doesn't print


Prints o.k. for me. The size of the image file may be swamping the capacity of your printer.

and the legend is unreadable on the monitor


This is a function of your browser. It displays fine in Google Chrome, but I.E. doesn't handle the image reduction well.

Click on the image and it will display full size. Then scroll to the legend. (But if your monitor is low res it will be a little unwieldy.)

The best way to view and print it is probably just to copy and paste it into Word.
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Chad


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Does this help?





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Mick Harper
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I notice that the Earth Sciences have done their usual trick. You come across something interesting and peculiar (the loess deposits in North China) and then, because they never proceed scientifically, the concept gets widened and widened until it is meaningless.
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Chad


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Where exactly do they draw the line between loess and other granular deposits such as 'bog standard' sand?

It is a sedimentary deposit of mineral particles which are finer than sand but coarser than dust or clay [of non-specific origin].


Most of this stuff doesn't look to be of volcanic origin. And even if it was it doesn't seem to fit the distribution pattern one would expect from a Mid-Atlantic eruption.
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Leon



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And you say that 250 trillion tonnes ( of fine ash falls to Earth over 2,000 years but doesn't land everywhere?

You're probably right, Grant. I haven't been able to find evidence to back up Muck's idea.

Freksa uses this theory to explain why the central region of Europe between the Scandinavian mountains on one side and the Alps and Carpathians on the other was uninhabited from c 3000 to c 1200 BC. A simpler explanation is that it was the least desirable place to settle, both climatically and because it was heavily forested, and was populated only when population pressure at lower and especially higher latitudes pushed people into the region.

In other words, the whole theory doesn't crumble if Muck was wrong.
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Boreades


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Has anyone seen this site on Atlantis?

http://frontiers-of-anthropology.blogspot.co.uk/2012/12/atlantean-subsidence.html

We have reached the point at which the Atlantean Subsidence can be characterized. Work here has pinpointed the event itself in time to 1159 BC. We established that it ended a sea based culture known as the Sea Peoples to the Egyptians and as the Atlanteans to us. This culture arose to principally trade in copper and other metals including gold and its existence generated an expansion of general global mining activity that lasted approximately one and one half thousand years. Its principal expression in archeology was palace based trading factories all over the globe.

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Mick Harper
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How can this be 'subsidence' when Plato clearly indicates Atlantis disappeared in a day and a night?
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Boreades


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Mick Harper wrote:
How can this be 'subsidence' when Plato clearly indicates Atlantis disappeared in a day and a night?


Umm, he says "This massive subsidence took place in 1159 BC and by its nature took the day and night" - but I'm still looking for how he dates it to 1159BC
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Mick Harper
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Good luck on that. Meanwhile try to find out how an entire continent can 'massively subside'. I don't think you are allowed just to make up physical processes. Why not say it was pushed down into the Atlantic by a visiting Arcturian space-hopper's foot?
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Boreades


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Sudden subsidence, or sudden flooding? You may well say the latter, I would not argue with you. Either way the effect (for folks on that land mass) is much the same.

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Mick Harper
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How can you have a sudden flooding associated with the end of an ice age? Did the glaciers melt in a day and a night?
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Free-Radical



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Leon wrote:
Parallel with these metal finds, recent palaeodemographic studies have revealed a steady increase in European populations from the end of the Ice Age to the end of the 4th millennium, much greater in the 5th and especially the 4th, with dramatic expansion in its final centuries, followed by a sharp population drop in the 3rd millennium BC.

Indian archaeologists as far back as the 60s and 70s reported that under the 'early civilisation' cities of Mohenjodaro and Harappa - estimated 3rd-M populations around 35,000 - and under a layer of mud from 2.5 to 10 meters thick, there are ruins of metropolitan cities of indeterminate population numbers (it has not been possible to excavate the entire areas they are thought to occupy) but estimated in the millions.

Ground plans indicate building sizes and street and avenue widths similar to those of present-day Western cities. Skeletal remains in these lower cities show unusually high levels of radioactivity. Bricks from these cities are so numerous that they have provided material for houses in the surrounding area for 5000 years. They also provided gravel for the roadbed of 150 kms of railway extending from Harappa. Under a similar mud layer a 4th-M city of about 100,000 called Shar-e-Sukhten ('Burnt City') has been partially excavated in Iran.

The orthodox 'argument' is, as a sceptical and of course very well educated Englishman said to me, can we really trust the findings of Indian archaeologists?


Some serious clarification is needed here. How were these cites under "2.5 to 10 meters" of mud (!) being casually looted for bricks by the locals? Is there a surfeit of bulldozers and power shovels in this region so they can get through all the mud so easily? If so why do they even need the bricks?

And in light of this rather silly inconsistency, the claim of "unusual levels of radioactivity" needs to be especially carefully examined. There is nothing special about radioactivity. It's quite a natural phenomenon. Therefore, the important question is what type of radioactivity has been noticed? Could it be simple decay products from nearby thorium? The Indian subcontinent has an abundant supply of thorium. (And it's nearly as common as lead, worldwide, anyway). Without some details about the exact nature of the claimed radioactivity this looks like another modern legend tailored to suit contemporary pre-occupations, like nuclear Armageddon.

Not that this is not an important thing to worry about. It's still a real possibility as the knowledge of how to make nuclear weapons continues to spread. But it should not be allowed to distort historical investigations into the past.
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