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The Baphomet and Its Origins (History)
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Ishmael


In: Toronto
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Jorn wrote:
If you remember my sentence about the steerman standing on starboard side steering his ship after the stars, a tsar could just mean he who steers.


No.

Star, Tsar, Steer, and on and on and on....

All these words are forms of what is perhaps the oldest word in human language: A sound form I represent as "tzar". That word means "division" (the separation of one thing from another). The English word closest to the original is "zone".

Steering is a form of zoning -- making differentiation between one path and another. Stars themselves may have acquired their names by association with steering -- or may have been used for surveying land (zoning). Saying what came first is nearly impossible as all these words are all part-and-parcel.

All over the world, this word-form tzar is represented in every language and always represents a derivative concept related to division. Even the English word "the" is a derivative of "tzar". The word "the" may in fact be the English word closest to the original usage, when language was little more than pointing at an object and grunting -- and thereby separating that object out for observation from the whole of the rest of the universe.
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Ishmael


In: Toronto
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Wile E. Coyote wrote:
Huh .... Tsar is a variant of Beserkergang (beSERKer) Bear or Wolf shirt.


No.

It isn't.

Star, Tsar, Stan, Zone---I could go on and on and on. These are all forms of the same word. And saying what word is derived from another is always nearly impossible--as Mick showed in The Secret History of the English Language.
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Jorn



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Ishmael wrote:

Star, Tsar, Stan, Zone---I could go on and on and on. These are all forms of the same word. And saying what word is derived from another is always nearly impossible--as Mick showed in The Secret History of the English Language.


I disagree, and by the way, I think you are correct, when you insist on rules.

If a word is part of a family of similar words, having similar meaning, they probably originated in that language.

If families of words are shared across multiple languages, the languages are related, and while it might be impossible to say if a word is of Norse. English or Dutch origin, it might be perfectly possible to see that it is not Finnish or Welsh.

The Finnish word Sauna is clearly recognizable as a loanword in English.

The word Ski in English is harder to recognize as a Norwegian loanword, as English share the same family of words, of which Ski is a member.
If you only looked at the word Ski and its related words in English or Dutch, like ship, shield, skipper, shed, you could understand that it means split wood.

If you took the word ski and compared it to Latin or Greek words, I very much doubt you could understand what it meant.

It should be the same for the family of words like star, steer, starboard, stare, straight, street, stand etc. If they are not found in a family like in the Germanic languages, they are most likely a loanword in that language.

I for instance doubt Finnish share this st-root as something straight. Latin do seem to share it though.
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Wile E. Coyote


In: Arizona
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Ishmael wrote:
No. It isn't. Star, Tsar, Stan, Zone---I could go on and on and on. These are all forms of the same word.


Please do, we might then understand why you continue to mingle up STR etc with STN words.
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Ishmael


In: Toronto
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Wile E. Coyote wrote:
Please do, we might then understand why you continue to mingle up STR etc with STN words.


I don't mingle them up. N and R get swapped back and forth all the time. This is something we noted quite some time ago. Why that might be I've no idea. Nevertheless, it does seem reflected in the congruity of the English symbols "r" and "n"
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Wile E. Coyote


In: Arizona
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I think you will find that STNs are now closer to STMs than STR...

r splits from n

Then m splits from n.
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Ishmael


In: Toronto
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Wile E. Coyote wrote:
I think you will find that STNs are now closer to STMs than STR...r splits from n Then m splits from n.


Least I get to benefit from your obviously superior knowledge.
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