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The Flu (Health)
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Ishmael


In: Toronto
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I've just given you the numbers. Boris Johnson could not have been in any danger. The numbers are clear.

10,000 deaths from Covid-19 in a population of 350,000,000. 90% of those persons dying were of "advanced age."

How in the world are you still pretending Johnson was on his deathbed? He obviously wasn't. Though he may insist there's "no question about it."
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Hatty
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In: Berkshire
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So according to your scenario, St Thomas's ICU doctors and nurses were pretending too? First-rate actors one would have to say.
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Grant



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I’m not sure “co-morbidity” means you would have died of it anyway. It just means another disease which accompanied you to the grave.
As for Boris, he must have been ill but I’m not convinced the doctors didn’t panic over what for him was a nasty - and convenient - flu/cold/coronavirus.

This all comes back to what I said months ago. If you pay a multi-billion turnover organisation to panic on your behalf about every single health scare, don’t be surprised when they succeed. The solution is to defund the WHO and sack every single so-called expert in epidemiology
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Mick Harper
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In: London
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Two fascinating bits of Covid lore. The DVLA is unable to conduct driving tests in sufficient numbers to prevent a giant backlog building up. The people at the end of the queue will find their theory test pass has expired. We can't help that, is the DVLA position. Odeon Cinemas run a scheme where you pay a standing order and can visit their cinemas as often as you like. Since nobody has been able to for several months, lots of people want to cancel their standing order. Too many for Odeon Cinemas to cope with. Anyone who cancels their standing order off their own bat is breaking the terms of the contract and is automatically turned over to a debt collection agency. We can't help that, is the Odeon position.
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Ishmael


In: Toronto
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Hatty wrote:
So according to your scenario, St Thomas's ICU doctors and nurses were pretending too? First-rate actors one would have to say.


I don't know how you are seeing that in the scenario I am describing. Quite curious.
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Ishmael


In: Toronto
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Grant wrote:
I’m not sure “co-morbidity” means you would have died of it anyway. It just means another disease which accompanied you to the grave.


Incorrect. Co-morbidity means you had another disease that was itself fully capable of killing you.

Much like the coal fire on the Titanic that makes the iceberg an irrelevant invention.
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Ishmael


In: Toronto
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Grant wrote:
As for Boris, he must have been ill but I’m not convinced the doctors didn’t panic over what for him was a nasty - and convenient - flu/cold/coronavirus.


Precisely.

But the doctors had a legitimate reason to believe he had "Covid-19."

Testing.

More on that later.
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Hatty
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In: Berkshire
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As for Boris, he must have been ill but I’m not convinced the doctors didn’t panic over what for him was a nasty - and convenient - flu/cold/coronavirus.

This clearly suits your thesis but doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Apart from the fact there was no flu epidemic in the early summer, Boris was not alone among leading politicians to be diagnosed with the virus. Still, if an entire ICU staff can't tell the difference between 'ordinary' flu and Covid-19 we'd better defund the NHS forthwith.
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Mick Harper
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In: London
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The position has now reached crazy-stakes. The daily infection rate appears to be expanding exponentially (3000 yesterday, double from last week) while the death rate stays at -- functionally -- nil. The other figure bandied around, admissions to hospital, is never shown (nor broken down to ordinary and intensive care) but is consistently said to be 'unchanged' though one expert corrected this and said something to the effect, "Well, it rose by seventy," but didn't seem overly concerned.

Another expert tried to retain the status quo by talking about how the 3,000 will play out 'long term' but since the overall position has now gone through several two-week infection-to-outcome cycles, it is reasonable to say, WTF. Who cares if it goes up 10,000 if nobody much is dying. Flu cases are ten thousand on a good day.

This has become personal because, at the end of the month, I am due to have a holiday in close proximity to maybe 15-20 people -- children, adults, old, very old -- and there is talk of us all socially distancing. My position is not me, bub. If we have a carrier we'll all likely catch it anyway and since none of us are likely to be one of the half dozen due to die on any given day, let's just go for it. But then I'm the only member of my extended family who got a VC during the war. Not that I have ever told them. Well, you don't, do you? I told them once about being a polymathic genius and I've never heard the last of that!
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Chad


In: Ramsbottom
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This has become personal...

It certainly has for me. I own a hospitality business on the outskirts of Bolton. They have just announced we can now only provide a take-away service. Who the hell do they think we are... Unlucky Fried Kitten?
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Mick Harper
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In: London
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Waiter, take this away.
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Boreades


In: finity and beyond
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Mick Harper wrote:
The position has now reached crazy-stakes. The daily infection rate appears to be expanding exponentially (3000 yesterday, double from last week) while the death rate stays at -- functionally -- nil.


I might have to explain this several times.

Now that many more tests are being done outside of hospitals, the tests are naturally finding many more +ve results (cases, infections) among the high proportion of the general population that were never sick enough to go to hospital. (Even if the sensitivity of the tests is so high that it produces many false +ve. But that's another story.)

This is actually a Good Thing, as it helps (very slowly) to educate the General Public that (just perhaps) this whole thing is not so scary as they were frightened to believe.

I refer my honourable colleagues to real medical evidence, like on the Gov UK website's Death Dashboard.
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

And, for an evidence-based guide, Evidence Not Fear.
https://evidencenotfear.com/

Even in the age group that appears on AEL, we are all now at least 50 times more likely to die from something else and more mundane, like a “normal” road traffic accident.
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Ishmael


In: Toronto
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Hatty wrote:
This clearly suits your thesis but doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Apart from the fact there was no flu epidemic in the early summer

There might have been for jet-setting world travelers. But who knows! I said I didn't know what made Boris sick. And I don't care. Because whatever it was, it was of no mortal danger.

Boris was not alone among leading politicians to be diagnosed with the virus.

Yes. Surprising how many rich and famous were diagnosed early on. Almost like the disagnoses followed those who could afford the testing. While everyone else went on with their lives undisturbed by the meddlers.

Still, if an entire ICU staff can't tell the difference between 'ordinary' flu and Covid-19 we'd better defund the NHS forthwith.

I didn't say it.

You said it.
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Mick Harper
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In: London
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I might have to explain this several times.

I can't think why since I've explained the same thing several times. Though what you said was worth saying once.
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Hatty
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In: Berkshire
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Ishmael wrote:
There might have been for jet-setting world travelers. But who knows! I said I didn't know what made Boris sick. And I don't care. Because whatever it was, it was of no mortal danger.

You are surely aware that the elderly, people from minority, mainly Asian, backgrounds and those with underlying conditions such as diabetes, obesity and so on .are most affected by the virus. Rich white people are generally less at risk unless they were irresponsible like Boris. Who, by the way, was in danger. It is not acceptable to bend or misrepresent facts to support an a priori position, as you'd doubtless agree even if you don't agree.
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