MemberlistThe Library Index  FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
The Flu (Health)
Reply to topic Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4 ... 70, 71, 72  Next
View previous topic :: View next topic  
nemesis8


In: byrhfunt
View user's profile
Reply with quote

Ishmael wrote:
I started down this road when I began to question the received wisdom regarding the fate of American Indians, supposedly killed off in a holocaust of disease brought to the Americas by Columbus and Co. I've just got it in my head that this probably didn't happen at all --


What killed a large part of the native populations of the new world, after contact was made by Europeans....?

Answer...... it was germs....

That would be European germs?

Answer..... correct

So the native populations were largely germ free....?

Answer.... Err no but they could not resist the new European germs.

So the Europeans did not pick up any germs from the natives...?

Err well I guess they must have had some resistance....what you are overlooking is that the Europeans were living in towns and cities with domestic animals,where there were germs, and they had developed a resistance.

So you are saying that the natives did not have towns/cities....

Err well modern archaeology shows that they did have towns/cities of many thousands of people which were overcrowded and contained domestic animals...

So in essence what we have is historical reports of natives dying from a disease that might have been smallpox ..... and the Europeans were to blame?

Yep it is obvious. It was smallpox.

Thank you

No thank you.
Send private message
nemesis8


In: byrhfunt
View user's profile
Reply with quote

N8 has wasted a couple of days looking for evidence that smallpox wiped out large numbers of Aztecs and Incas. (it didn't)

The explanation for all these deaths is both simple and obvious, they were all killed by.........

a variant of Spanish Flu.........
Send private message
Ishmael


In: Toronto
View user's profile
Reply with quote

nemesis8 wrote:
...a variant of Spanish Flu.........


But we've already suggested that Spanish Flu wasn't the flu -- but treatment for the flu.
Send private message
nemesis8


In: byrhfunt
View user's profile
Reply with quote

Ishmael wrote:
But we've already suggested that Spanish Flu wasn't the flu --


Yep and it had nothing to do with Spain....

N8 is convinced, there is a clear pattern.

Incas = Spanish flu
Aztecs= Spanish flu
North American Natives= Spanish flu
1918=Spanish flu
Mexico 2009=Spanish flu

The Spanish link is clear.
Send private message
Ishmael


In: Toronto
View user's profile
Reply with quote

What are you getting at?
Send private message
nemesis8


In: byrhfunt
View user's profile
Reply with quote

Hey Ish, we are not alone, there are some more conquistadors that reckon the smallpox wipeout theory is bollocks. Take the slideshow option. Thought provoking.

http://www.hist.umn.edu/~rmccaa/aha2004/
Send private message
Ishmael


In: Toronto
View user's profile
Reply with quote

No pockmarked mummies have ever been found in Peru.

Devastating.

So why don't the authors question the demographic collapse itself? I say the native population was never very high to begin with.
Send private message
nemesis8


In: byrhfunt
View user's profile
Reply with quote

How many people live in the United States?
Send private message
Ishmael


In: Toronto
View user's profile
Reply with quote

400 million, at my last count.
Send private message
nemesis8


In: byrhfunt
View user's profile
Reply with quote

Yep dead right. I guess you're smarter than me, you knew the answer. The way I did it was to look at the last census, (which are always correct) and projected forward using birth and mortality rates etc.

That's the reverse of the method you use to calculate the Inca, you look at the "census" after colonisation and calculate backwards. That way we know scientifically, it was either 2 or 37 million, or somewhere in between..... all according to the modelling used.

This method is even more precise than carbon dating

Sorry Ish, your thesis about the low native population is in tatters.
Send private message
Chad


In: Ramsbottom
View user's profile
Reply with quote

MPI

Or have you ruled that out?
Send private message
Ishmael


In: Toronto
View user's profile
Reply with quote

nemesis8 wrote:
This method is even more precise than carbon dating.


What are you talking about?
Send private message
nemesis8


In: byrhfunt
View user's profile
Reply with quote

Sorry Ish....we Brits don't target our irony...we just slap it on....N8 is by far the worst offender.... I can't help myself...

What I was trying to show was... that despite the scientific modelling claims nobody really knows the Inca population pre conquest. It's really guesswork..... so the bigger the "wipeout" the higher the population....

So you could be right, there could have been far fewer natives...I just see no way of proving it.......maybe some bright spark could look at the total archaeology and take a punt? Would that be feasible?
Send private message
nemesis8


In: byrhfunt
View user's profile
Reply with quote

Just throw this in re mortality rates. It is well known that modern Aborigines have a much shorter life expectancy than non Aboriginal Australians.

http://www.aihw.gov.au/indigenous/health/mortality.cfm

The figures are really quite dramatic

"For the period 1996-2001, the life expectancy at birth for an Indigenous male was 59 years, and for an Indigenous female, 65 years. For the period 2002-2004, males in the total Australian population had a life expectancy of 78 years and females 83 years."
Send private message
nemesis8


In: byrhfunt
View user's profile
Reply with quote

So we don't know what the Inca population was before conquest and we don't know what were the mortality rates before conquest.....
Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4 ... 70, 71, 72  Next

Jump to:  
Page 3 of 72

MemberlistThe Library Index  FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group