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The Flu (Health)
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DPCrisp


In: Bedfordshire
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Of this I have long been certain. Swine flue is... the flu.

Quite.

Now... let me put this idea out there.

When a woman gets pregnant, her body is disfigured and she does not feel very good. She often vomits in the beginning and, as the condition develops, her mobility decreases. She gets back aches and stretch marks and varicose veins. Her entire body is transformed and often in ways she would rather it not be.

Sounds a lot like a disease and certainly, the single-celled sperm, has behaved much like an infection: Attacking her ovum, transforming its genetic structure, and then parasitically implanting the mutated cell structure into her flesh where it siphons off valuable caloric energy.

This reminds me of a couple of posts from some time back on the other site:

[Regarding organs] "Two or four of everything" is the default. "One of each" is the specialised position.

{Sweat glands, hair follicles and sebaceous glands are individual tubes all over the surface of the skin, which we can consider mere convolutions of the outer surface. Or, if we really want to push the 'complementary pairs of systems' idea, we can consider the reproductive organs to be an external system that offers up cells and secretions analogous to the shedding of skin, sweat and oil.}
and

There was a fascinating programme recently about ectopic pregnancies... The point is, though, that these underline that babies are pretty much entities unto themselves and will do anything to latch onto a blood supply and grow. Even in normal, uterine pregnancies, they're parasitic and quite dangerous to their mothers. So I'm thinkin':

1. The uterus is a special organ to limit access to the mother's body and keep it under control. A pregnancy is like a controlled explosion.

2. I can't think of an asexual animal with anything like a uterus. Nature being what it is, I wouldn't be surprised if there were some, but I'm not aware that, in general, specialised asexual reproductive organs prefigured the uterus and genitalia of sexual animals (organisms). So I suppose sexual reproduction started before there were specialised organs to manage it.


An organism is invaded by millions of tiny, self-propelled intruders. They penetrate cells, alter their genetic material and make whole new organisms that plug themselves into the host organs and grow parasitically.

Sounds like science fiction horror, but that's what happens in pregnant women. Only, humans are so arranged as to have special defensive barriers and to submit, usually one at a time, special sacrificial host cells that are specially tuned to the genetic alteration process. (I think it's true to say sperm cells are actively killed inside the uterus. The whole process is barely tolerated or finely tuned, depending on how you look at it.)

Remember: we think of ourselves as well-defined individuals, sharply demarcated from other individuals: this is me, that is not. But it doesn't really work that way. Even complex cells appear to be collections of simpler ones. There are no clear dividing lines between what is inside us and what is outside, which organisms are essential to our survival and which are invaders, which bits are essential and which bits we can lose and still be ourselves... All that stuff about blood types suggests that we descend from a regime that would not recognise inside and outside as we do now.

I think sexual reproduction began as some kind of predatory mechanism. And gametes have a marked similarity to viruses.
Something I thought I'd said, but can't find, is that male and female internal organs are entirely equivalent, and differentiating the form of the sexual organs comes rather late in the process (and can be incomplete or reversible). So if it's such a fine line, what's the uterus about? A very big difference in internal organs.

But... it's not an internal organ, is it? It's actually a "loop" on the external surface, with an elaborate (Fallopian) interface to the internal organs. As above, it's an organ for keeping babies out of your insides.
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nemesis8


In: byrhfunt
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Sometimes it is worth revisiting a topic.

I note Roche is still delaying on releasing information on Tamiflu trials in particular the bits concerning the harmful effects of the drug.

Let us note in general terms that people taking Tamiflu have often complained about confusion and hallucination.

Let us note that in general terms people who have flu often complain about confusion and hallucination.

Let us note that as Swine Flu became resistant to Tamiflu the suggested Tamiflu doses were further increased (doubled) and the courses lengthened (doubled).

Let us reread Ish's first post.

So what exactly did happen? What exactly happened in Mexico to cause those first worrying fatalities?

Let us further note that you can now get drugs over the internet. Drugs are often stockpiled and prescribed without proper supervision. As panic starts people start to buy and self medicate.
Hospitals run out of the drug so panic/despair sets in.

I don't know for sure but I reckon what we saw was basically a few cases of flu followed by a surge of Tamiflu fatalities, which then created a worldwide panic and the mass purchase of Tamiflu....As the drug became better administered, e.g. not given to a person with previous mental health problems, dosage was better controlled etc., the problems stopped.

This flu was nasty but not a killer....
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admin
Librarian


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Sometimes it is worth revisiting a topic.

This website is deliberately arranged without dates so that all subjects are alive all the time, despite temporary dormancy. Just like influenza in fact.
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Ishmael


In: Toronto
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nemesis8 wrote:
I don't know for sure but I reckon what we saw was basically a few cases of flu followed by a surge of Tamiflu fatalities, which then created a worldwide panic and the mass purchase of Tamiflu....


Amazing.
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nemesis8


In: byrhfunt
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Ish have you considered that in 1918 the mass vaccination programmes given at first to soldiers during the war and after the soldiers returned home, to the general public, when the panic really set in, was the big killer?
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Ishmael


In: Toronto
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nemesis8 wrote:
Ish have you considered that in 1918 the mass vaccination programmes given at first to soldiers during the war and after the soldiers returned home, to the general public, when the panic really set in, was the big killer?


No!

First I've heard of this!

Damn but I bet you've got something here.

Do the work and I'll share the Nobel prize! ;-)
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Ishmael


In: Toronto
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Someone beat us to it!
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Ishmael


In: Toronto
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More about aspirin as the cause of flu deaths.

This article claims people are still being killed today by aspirin! The latest mass-killer is Tamiflu. I have to say, allowing for some exaggeration, this has to me the ring of truth.
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nemesis8


In: byrhfunt
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Damn and Double Damn.
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Ishmael


In: Toronto
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The only question remaining for me is which culprit was the killer? Aspirin or Immunization? Or was the mass immunization the trigger for the flu symptoms for which massive doses of Aspirin were given to suppress?

I am largely sold on the case the second article makes regarding the practical purpose of running a fever -- and why taking cold and flu medication is unwise. It certainly sounds rational.
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nemesis8


In: byrhfunt
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Ok, we have a couple of culprits.

Whatever the answer, N8 reckons that you could also add into this unhealty mix, collective mass hysteria. If people are convinced they are going to die, they do, particularly when everybody is dying around them, the world is coming to an end, and they develop a temperature.... etc.

But there again N8 put down many of those 2003 so-called heatwave deaths to mass hysteria......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_European_heat_wave
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nemesis8


In: byrhfunt
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As Roche still are not providing details of clinical trials into Tamiflu, N8 feels free to speculate a little.

Just for a second let us put ourselves in Mexico. We have a recorded death of a patient who it is verified had Swine Flu.

This is the start of a worldwide panic that we might face a pandemic which could kill millions. The tourist industry to Mexico will come to a halt. Pig farmers are going to go bankrupt....

We start prescribing Tamiflu.. at all costs we must hopefully stop pandemic soon.

The patients in our hospital start reporting the following symptoms.... http://www.askapatient.com/viewrating.asp?drug=21087&name=TAMIFLU

We now have to make some tricky decisions whether to keep prescribing the Tamiflu to patients, many of whom appear to be getting worse. Issues of patient consent become blurred. We are trying to stop a pandemic which could kill millions.

The numbers of fatalities are rising, weak patients are now also dying through secondary infections. The hospital is becoming more crowded. We are unable to screen all patients for other infections, illness they are bringing into hospital. Patients and relatives are giving up as patients are becoming weaker.

We encourage the patients to keep on the Tamiflu it is their only 'hope'.

The cause of death for these patients is now unclear, but nobody likes to think that they have been either indirectly or directly killed by the prescription of Tamiflu by well-meaning doctors and nurses. If the patient has been infected by swine flu, that surely will be the primary recorded cause of death.

The more deaths that are recorded the bigger the demand for Tamiflu, people are buying off the internet and self medicating. They start to feel very ill, attend clinics and hospitals. Panic is further growing. Hysteria starts to take hold.....?
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Grant



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The more deaths that are recorded the bigger the demand for Tamiflu, people are buying off the internet and self medicating. They start to feel very ill, attend clinics and hospitals. Panic is further growing. Hysteria starts to take hold....?


There's an even simpler explanation. As Milton Friedman said of welfare dependants: the more you pay for something, the more you get of it. If you fund large government bodies to look out for epidemics, the more scares there will be. If you pay drug companies billions for flu vaccines, the more scares there will be.
The same goes for so many of our current health concerns - Alzheimer's, asthma, Attention Deficit Disorder, dyslexia. They are all genuine disorders but they are all soaring in popularity because we pay money for them, either directly to the sufferers or to the drug companies who produce "cures."
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nemesis8


In: byrhfunt
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Yep, Grant, that's also part of the story......

In fact when WW1 ended, companies had huge stockpiles or drugs they needed to sell.... If you wanted to be cynical......

Going quickly back to 1918, soldiers might have been disproportionately hit by so-called "Spanish Flu" because they did not have to give consent to any treatment.
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Ishmael


In: Toronto
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This is all coming together now.

Sadly.
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