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Exodus (Philosophy)
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lyndserae


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Today, this article caught my eye:
http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/alleged-discovery-of-real-mt-sinai-could-change-the-middle-east-forever/

Here's what I find most interesting:
A quick look at what has been found easily explains all the fuss. Dr. Moller points out that the site at Nuweiba he identifies as the Red Sea crossing point has an underwater land bridge, upon which damaged chariot parts and bones remain, engulfed in coral. The top of Jabal al-Lawz, the alleged real Mt. Sinai, is black, as if burned from the sky as described in Exodus 19:18, where it says 'the Lord descended upon it in fire.'

That's pretty neat. I'm a "religious person" but also an analytic quasi-skeptic. Probably like most folks who hang out here, I think the amount of stuff that gets lost in translation or plain lied about in our written history.

So, has anyone read this fellow's 2 books? Should I read them? Do you have anything to add?
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Brian Ambrose



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Take with a pinch of salt.

This theory was originally proposed by Ron Wyatt, it sounds like others are now claiming his 'discoveries' as their own. Many (if not all) of Wyatt's many discoveries have never been independently verified (as far as I know the underwater chariot wheel photographs are all Wyatt's), and he made some very strange claims in his other archeological endeavours (as well as finding Noah's ark, he claimed to have found the original ark of the covenant, deep down in the rocks below where Jesus was crucified, and that Jesus' blood had literally dripped down and anointed it; I think he also saw an angel).

From memory, the biggest problem with the theory, from a biblical point of view, is how 3 million Israelites could possibly have covered the distance down to Nuweiba in 5 days. Also, the 'land bridge', whilst it does exist, has steep sides and is unlikely to have been navigable.

Still, a great story, and it makes a lot of sense that mount Sinai would be in Arabia, for example what would Moses be doing tending sheep in the Egyptian wilderness, prior to the burning bush incident, when he was supposed to be dwelling in the land of Midian (Arabia)?.
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Hatty
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Moller has a photo of one of these rocks, which he identifies as 'obsidian or volcanic glass, a mineral formed at high temperatures.'

An industrial site then.

The edges of the split and the rock underneath it have become smooth, as if a stream of water had poured forth from the rock, creating a river. Given the annual rainfall in Saudi Arabia and the fact that the erosion is only present on that rock and no other ones in the surrounding area, it's hard to find a plausible explanation for this remarkable find.

More evidence of industry.

Obsidian from the shores of Lake Van in Anatolia was used for making tools and artefacts in the Near and Middle East even unto the Dead Sea.
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lyndserae


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Brian Ambrose wrote:
Still, a great story, and it makes a lot of sense that mount Sinai would be in Arabia, for example what would Moses be doing tending sheep in the Egyptian wilderness, prior to the burning bush incident, when he was supposed to be dwelling in the land of Midian (Arabia)?.

Yes, it seemed rather plausible. I may see if I can find that book at a library and give it a whirl. Thanks also for the additional references. Gives me something to do with the rest of my (very slow) work day!

I've always wondered about all land bridges, since everwhere "they" say is a land bridge has been covered with water for some time, how we can extrapolate back to what it looked like thousands of years ago.

I think the biggest question about the travel is how many Israelites were there really. We are talking about a source that lists some people as having been 500 years old...
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Brian Ambrose



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Hatty said

An industrial site then.


Unlikely I would have thought. It's claimed to be at the top of a not easily accessible mountain ('Sinai'). But this bloke Moller - are they really his photographs? Unlikely - the mountain has been off limits (it's in a military area) for years (especially since Ron Wyatt caused a diplomatic incident there).
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lyndserae


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http://www.newprovidencebc.com/images/jabal_al_lawz.jpg

This photo doesn't really provide any information, does it!?

The accompanying text:
The top of Jabal al-Lawz, the alleged real Mt. Sinai, is black, as if burned from the sky as described in Exodus 19:18, where it says 'the Lord descended upon it in fire.' This feature sets it apart from all the other surrounding mountains which do not have darkened tops..
Appears just before the bit about volcanic glass.

Mostly while reading through some of this, I have been surprised at the controversy surrounding the use (or not) of the Torah as an historical document. It's one of the oldest surviving histories and seems to have had little editing in a long time. I would think people would be more open to using it as a source, even if they (like me) don't believe it to be divine truth.
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Brian Ambrose



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Yes, the Torah has remained remained relatively untinkered with since (I think) around 700 BC, and probably contains far more history than people give it credit. Many parts of it seem to be a very clever integration of multiple original whole sources into one (almost) seamless text - amazingly, the original sources (likely from independent northern and southern kingdom accounts) can still be read stand-alone when you de-integrate them, so it seems the talented compiler was compelled to retain as much of his sources as possible whilst presenting a single 'holy' account of history. I expect this respect for his sources was due to their authority and antiquity, but presumably it also produced a single work acceptable to both northern and southern traditions.

The blackened top of Jabal al Lawz does make it an exciting candidate for Sinai. This is typical of the sort of speculative archeological research Ron Wyatt did, and it certainly gives us die-hard literalists a buzz. Unfortunately I think al Lawz is known to be volcanic so there is probably a more prosaic explanation for its colour. Wyatt also claimed to find tangible evidence of Israelite occupation around al Lawz as well - all tantalising stuff, but those (few) archeologists who have been allowed near the place have not been supportive of Wyatt's claims about the antiquity of these artifacts.

Mad or not, and such as they are, I do hope 'Dr.Moller' properly credits Wyatt as the source of his theories.
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Ishmael


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Brian Ambrose wrote:
Yes, the Torah has remained remained relatively untinkered with since (I think) around 700 BC


If you believe in 700B.C.

I don't.
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lyndserae


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Brian- I ended up watching this video, where Bob Cornuke goes to the site. Some of the video is compelling, but the hokey "reconstruction" acting was a little much, same with the "armed Saudis with guns" bit.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4305370740783955461

Dig the Egyptian cow glyph on the side of the mountain. Even if it's not accurately what they say it is, it's darn cool!

Worth the 45 minutes, if you have it to spare.
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Ishmael


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I actually read the book "The Gold of Exodus" many years ago, which was the first book these two wrote detailing their exploits. I have to say I found the material they presented compelling -- which is yet another reason why I no longer put much stock in arguments based on "evidence". It's too easy to find evidence to support any conclusion.

I don't know what to make of it anymore because I now have much reason to suspect the entire account just another version of a story told by many peoples. For example, compare the tale with that of Spartacus. Even the same volcano is present.
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Pulp History


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I presume the 'new' real Mount Sinai was discovered to allow an Arab man with a supply of CocaCola and Mars Bars to set up shop on a new site, as the old Mount Sinai has more than enough retail outlets on its holy humps! And when the new one is exhausted economically then another 'new' one will be discovered!!
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Hatty
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Does anyone know how Mount Sinai got its name? The reason I ask is because Wittenham Clumps, a remarkable hill overlooking the Thames at Dorchester (and in a straight line with Little Wittenham church which I noticed has a Star of David over the door) is part of the Sinodun hills. The Royal Berkshire historian David Nash thinks Sinodun springs from Celtic seno-dun meaning 'old fort'.
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Ishmael


In: Toronto
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Sounds like Synod.
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Ishmael


In: Toronto
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Hmmm...

Don't suppose the whole thing is a metaphor for a meeting of Bishops chaired by the chief Bishop, Moses, which handed down "from on high" a set of ethical principles encapsulated in The Ten Commandments and its attendant laws?

hmmm.....
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Hatty
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Sounds like Synod.

Yes! You really are numero uno. Why didn't I think of that? The names of outstanding hills and barrows are often associated with meeting places. High courts perhaps. This particular hill is facing Dorchester Abbey which itself is not much of a landmark and is separated from the Thames by a raised embankment called Dyke Hills. People tell me they are flood defences but I'm not sure. More like a cursus or a barrier. But I digress. Synod, an ecclesiastical assembly, and mountain must be related; it's all of a piece with the way Christianity incorporated holy sites and pre-existing practices.
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