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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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| DPCrisp wrote: | Monday = Moon Day
Moon: O.E. mona, from Proto-Germanic *mēnô (...mano... mona... mani... maan... Mond... mena...), from PIE *me(n)ses- "moon, month" (...masah... ma... mah... mis... mene... men... mensis... meseci... menesis... mi... mis... miz[/i]...), probably from base *me- "to measure," in ref. to the moon's phases as the measure of time.... {This is surely backwards: what comes first, the notion of measuring periods of time or a name for the Moon?} Gk. selene (Lesbian selanna) is from selas "light, brightness (of heavenly bodies)." {I think KomoriKid argues about this one, but Selene = Sol/Sal looks pretty secure from here.}
So, Moon is just the name for a very particular heavenly body.
Compare:
mono-: from Gk. mono-, comb. form of monos "single, alone," from PIE base *men- "small, isolated," also represented by Gk. manos "rare, sparse," and perhaps by Eng. minnow.
If you ask me, Moon = Mono.
Tuesday = Tiu's Day
Tiu or Tiw is also known as Twisto -- though it's difficult to find anything on this in English now: I'm dredging something up from the back of my mind -- which means twin and two.
Wednesday = Woden's Day
Woden, Wotan or Odin is the god who hung himself from the World-Tree to obtain Wisdom: the tree that transcends Heaven and Earth in a triad. He is identified with Zeus, who is 'personified' in the oak tree. Wood, meaning mad, refers to Woden's berserkers and is no doubt related to the notion of the wild wood. I think we've discussed before that tree and three are basically the same word.
Note also that Mercredi = Mercury Day and Mercury is the Messenger between Heaven and Earth, equivalent to Iris, the rainbow (bridge), signified by the fleur-de-lis, a symbol of Mary the Virgin, kingship, unity between Heaven and Earth. Mercury symbolises a triad, too.
Note also that the Odin-based name is missing in Ger. (mittwoch, from O.H.G. mittwocha, lit. "mid-week"), probably by infl. of Gothic, which seems to have adopted a pure ecclesiastical (i.e. non-astrological) week from Gk. missionaries. The Gothic model also seems to be the source of Pol. sroda, Rus. sreda "Wednesday," lit. "middle.". If the middle of the week was already defined, then so was the weekend: a supposedly recent invention.
Thursday = Thor's Day
Phonetically, I'm tempted to say Thor = Four, but I'm not sure about this. How about Thor = Zeus = tetraktys, 10, the set of 4, the 4th Triangular Number?
Friday = Frigg's Day
The double-G makes this hard to swallow, but there is a close association between Frigg (of the Aesir, Odin's wife and goddess of married love) and Freya (of the Vanir, goddess of love and beauty). Freya is identified with Venus (as in Vendredi), free {no coincidence} love and debauchery. I guess Friday night has always been Friday night!
Venus is also represented by the five-pointed star. {I could make up a phonological connection between five and Frigg, but that might be stretching things a bit.}
Saturday = Saturn's Day
Saturday: O.E. Sætern(es)dæg, sæternesdæg, lit. "day of the planet Saturn," from Saeternes (gen. of Saetern, see Saturn) + O.E. dæg "day." Partial loan-translation of L. Saturni dies "Saturn's day" (cf. Du. zaterdag, O.Fris. saterdi, M.L.G. satersdach; Ir. dia Sathuirn, Welsh dydd Sadwrn). The L. word is itself a loan-translation of Gk. kronou hemera, lit. "the day of Cronus." Unlike other day names, no god substitution seems to have been attempted, perhaps because the northern European pantheon lacks a clear corresponding figure to Roman Saturn.
Wot, no god/dess of farming and fertility? Do me a favour.
An ancient Nordic custom, however, seems to be preserved in O.N. laugardagr, Dan. lørdag, Swed. lördag "Saturday," lit. "bath day" (cf. O.N. laug "bath").
Well, that's about ritual cleanliness, surely! Cf. the Sabbath. {Are bath and bathos directly related to this?}
Ger. Samstag (O.H.G. sambaztag) appears to be from a Gk. *sambaton, a nasalized colloquial form of sabbaton "sabbath," also attested in O.C.S. sabota, Rus. subbota, Fr. samedi.
That is to say, they have no idea why the French and German words have M in them, so they assume someone nasalised the pronunciation of Sabbath. Well, the first thing I come across on looking for other possibilities for sam- is
sam: [OE samnian = OFris. somnia, OS samnon, MLG, MDu. sam(e)nen (Du. zamelen), OHG samanon (G sammeln), ON samna, safna, f. Gmc base f. repr. also by Skt samana together.] Assemble (people); bring together, join, in marriage, friendship, love, etc.
Whatever the official etymologies say, this is surely cognate with same; L. simul "together, at the same time", assemble, ensemble, simultaneous; and semble, resemble, etc. Somnia means sleep: like the morning after the night before; or like the soul ruled by his (Saturnalian) appetites. It's not far from soma either: the body that has the appetites!
So Samstag, Samedi might well mean "coming together day", as in a Saturnalian celebration or sabbat.
And "putting together into groups" is precisely what sex and section mean. Remembering that seven means sever, the numbers divided off from the rest are six. Also remember that Saturn or Cronus was the last of the Titans, superseded by Zeus the Olympian -- who cut off his father's testicles, didn't he?
Sunday = Sun's Day
Sun = Sol. {Again, they can't explain the marked divergence in pronunciation, but they reconstruct it all the same! The PIE element -*el- in the root originally was a suffix and had an alternate form -*en-, yielding *s(u)wen-, source of Eng. sun. The asterisk means 'reconstructed', i.e. made up.}
Sol, like Moon, seems to be nothing other than the name for the Sun. Cf. solus, sole, solo, etc.: something singular.
There is a sense of 'unity', perhaps 'completeness', in the Sun, as there is in seven or sever. And as the seventh day, Sunday divides off the week, completes it, ready for the next one.
The argument might have raged since the dawn of time: Sunday must be the first day... Sunday must be the seventh day... Both make sense. But the overall pattern suggested here is:
Monday = Mono Day
Tuesday = Two Day
Wednesday = Three Day
Thursday = Four Day
Friday = Five Day
Saturday = Six Day
Sunday = Seven Day
The timeless constant seems to be getting drunk on Friday and/or Saturday night and resting, sleeping it off the next day.
It is always assumed that the days were translated from Greek into Roman into English; and the meanings of the names (the gods) ascribed to them are consistent; but since the match between the days and the numbers is better in English than in Latin, it could well be that it went the other way around: the Romans inherited the system of days {as well as months} from us. |
All very interesting. According to orthodoxy, in the Greco Roman traditions and Germanic traditions your days are named after planets but DP wanted also to show a link to numbers.
This is not such a strange idea as there are few weekday systems mainly slavic, that are solely named after numbers, and a few hybrids. Apparently Swahili is unique.....
Still lets go the full way and argue that the English weekdays are named solely after numbers. Your ancients were counting.
One Day= MonDay
Two Day=Tuesday
Three Day= Thursday
Four Day=Friday
This looks close. It does however leave a problem. You might have spotted it.....
Our third day is in fact a Wednesday.
Never mind Dan has already solved this, err ....if you read his post carefully. We simply have a W(eek)endday mid week.
Lets start again.
One Day= MonDay
Two Day=Tuesday
Wednesday=W(eek)endday
Three Day= Thursday
Four Day=Friday
In fact the English system of days of the week was based on numbers. Planets had nothing to do with it at all...... Your ancients were just counting. Their week ended Tuesday night and restarted Thursday.
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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Or did it?
You can't help thinking we need an explanation for the traditional end of the week?
And what the Coyote has five to do with it?
Let us look at it again.
One Day= MonDay
Two Day=Tuesday
Wednesday=W(eek)endday
Three Day= Thursday
Four Day=Friday
Our next two days:
Saturday,
Sunday.
No relationship to five whatsoever. Damn.
However.
Six
Seven
Might be interesting.......
The clue is in the Six it's Cease.........
Let's add it to our list, and tidy up..
One Day= MonDay
Two Day=Tuesday
Wednesday=Endday
Three Day= Thursday
Four Day=Friday
Sixday=Cease Day
It's now becoming clearer and more logical.
You have a pattern 1,2, Break, 3,4, Break,
You are grouping in threes and you simply don't need a Five.
But there is still a problem......
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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Hmm we still need to count for another day.
We are of course working to a lunar calendar.
Your ancients were very interested in the sun, but to calculate Moonths, it is not a lot of help.
The basic calcualtion is 4x7=28.
Let's go back to Dan.
| Dan wrote: | | Remembering that seven means sever, |
The Seventh day = The Sever day, The Seper(ate)Day. It in fact Saturday. Our Days of the week are now clear.
One Day= MonDay
Two Day=Tuesday
Wednesday=Endday
Three Day= Thursday
Four Day=Friday
Sixday=Cease Day
Seventh Day=Sever day.
This is how the ancients understood the week
One
Two
End of Middle
Three
Four
Cease
Sever
Note the pattern.
Their days are split into threes.
Morning
Afternoon
NIGHT
Morning
Afternoon
NIGHT
Can you use your ancients' Lunar Calendar?
Of course.
You simply need to study the moon and count to four.
If you're finding it strange, help is at hand. You can have a visual representation.You use three hares dancing round a moon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Paderborner_Dom_Dreihasenfenster.jpg
Lupus Ecstasis.
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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Most ingenious, Wiley. Do go on.
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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For what it's worth, Wednesday equals Woden equals The Hanged Man. And is the hinge of the week as per the primary Tarot meaning:
| The Hanged Man generally shows that you are at a crossroads - one with only two options i.e. in or out, up or down, yes or no. |
As per Megalithia, people actually were hanged at crossroads.
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Boreades
In: finity and beyond
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| Mick Harper wrote: | For what it's worth, Wednesday equals Woden equals The Hanged Man. And is the hinge of the week as per the primary Tarot meaning:
| The Hanged Man generally shows that you are at a crossroads - one with only two options i.e. in or out, up or down, yes or no. |
As per Megalithia, people actually were hanged at crossroads. |
Hence the legal expression:
You will be taken from the henge in which you were last confined and hinged by the neck until you are Woden. May God have mercy on your flatfish.
See the black cap.
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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| Mick Harper wrote: | | Do go on. |
Well at this stage I am really just adding to Dan's thread.
If I get the time I might post some ideas about numbers, counting and calendars in detail at New Concepts.
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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| Mick Harper wrote: | | For what it's worth, Wednesday equals Woden |
That is orthodoxy. I beg to disagree. Your ancients were counting.
Still, I am trembling as you got wiki onside.
| wiki wrote: |
The name Wednesday continues Middle English Wednesdei. Old English still had wÅdnesdæg, which would be continued as *Wodnesday (but Old Frisian has an attested wednesdei). By the early 13th century, the i-mutated form was introduced unetymologically.
The name is a calque of the Latin dies Mercurii "day of Mercury", reflecting the fact that the Germanic god Woden (Wodanaz or Odin) during the Roman era was interpreted as "Germanic Mercury".
The Latin name dates to the late 2nd or early 3rd century. It is a calque of Greek ἡμÎÏα á¼Ïμου heméra Hérmou, a term first attested, together with the system of naming the seven weekdays after the seven classical planets, in the Anthologiarum by Vettius Valens (ca. AD 170).
The Latin name is reflected directly in the weekday name in Romance languages: Mércuris (Sardinian), mercredi (French), mercoledi (Italian), miércoles (Spanish), miercuri (Romanian), dimecres (Catalan), Marcuri or Mercuri (Corsican), dies Mercurii (Latin). The German name for the day, Mittwoch (literally: "mid-week"), replaced the former name Wodanstag ("Wodan's day") in the tenth century. Most Slavic languages follow this pattern and use derivations of "the middle" (Bulgarian ÑÑ€Ñда sryada, Croatian srijeda, Czech stÅ™eda, Macedonian Ñреда sreda, Polish Å›roda, Russian Ñреда sredá, Serbian Ñреда/sreda or cриједа/srijeda, Slovak streda, Slovene sreda, Ukrainian Ñереда sereda). The Finnish name is Keskiviikko ("middle of the week"), as is the Icelandic name: Miðvikudagur, and the Faroese name: Mikudagur ("Mid-week day"). Some dialects of Faroese have Ónsdagur, though, which shares etymology with Wednesday. Danish, Norwegian, Swedish Onsdag, ("Ons-dag" = Odens/Odins dag/day). In Welsh it is Dydd Mercher, meaning Mercury's Day. |
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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| DPCrisp wrote: |
Monday = Mono Day
Tuesday = Two Day
Wednesday = Three Day
Thursday = Four Day
Friday = Five Day
Saturday = Six Day
Sunday = Seven Day
The timeless constant seems to be getting drunk on Friday and/or Saturday night and resting, sleeping it off the next day.
It is always assumed that the days were translated from Greek into Roman into English; and the meanings of the names (the gods) ascribed to them are consistent; but since the match between the days and the numbers is better in English than in Latin, it could well be that it went the other way around: the Romans inherited the system of days {as well as months} from us. |
Let's see how your Ruskies do it without ref to the Latin planets.
Trans Russian name (Wile suggestion for English weekdays in Brackets)
After 'do-nothing'
Monday (one day)
Second
Tuesday(two day)
Middle
Wednesday(end day)
Fourth
Thursday(three day)
Fifth
Friday(four day)
Sabbath
Saturday (cease)
Resurrection
Sunday (sever)
Note pretty similar.
It is blindingly obvious that the orthodox paradigm that English week day names were originally based on planet names has been smashed and is now in small pieces on the floor.......
The only problem is that everyone in the Kingdom bar Wile and Dan can't see it, and insists in adopting the approach of Valens circa AD 170, using a combination of ancient gods and visible planets, which (with the exception of moon) would have been of no practical purpose for your megalithic folk whatsoever.
Your ancients prior to Valens were counting days, around a lunar calendar. You can see this linguistically. We just need to understand the way they count.
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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| Mick Harper wrote: | | Wouldn't it also suggest that the Gods are named after the days? Or, better still, named after the numbers? |
| DPCrisp wrote: |
Monday = Mono Day
Tuesday = Two Day
Wednesday = Three Day
Thursday = Four Day
Friday = Five Day
Saturday = Six Day
Sunday = Seven Day
The timeless constant seems to be getting drunk on Friday and/or Saturday night and resting, sleeping it off the next day.
It is always assumed that the days were translated from Greek into Roman into English; and the meanings of the names (the gods) ascribed to them are consistent; but since the match between the days and the numbers is better in English than in Latin, it could well be that it went the other way around: the Romans inherited the system of days {as well as months} from us.
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Tyr (The original Germanic god of war and the patron god of justice, the precursor of Odin err according to some traditions also known as Tâ€waz, Tiw and Ziu.)
Odin (discoverer of Runes)
Thor (son of Odin)
Freya (parity with Odin) Frigg (wife of Odin)
Sif (wife of Thor err according to some traditions )
In fact is pretty close
(From Monday)
One day
Two day
One day
Three day
Four/Five are rolled up (they amalgamated two days later on?)
Six
Severn.
They are using cyclical counting.
Tyr, Odin, Thor
Freya, Frigg, Sit
Not quite there is it (?).
If it was
Odin,Tyr,Thor, Freya,Frigg, Sit
I would be happy.
Still it's getting there.
Aha.....Sol and Mani (Son and Moon) who pull their Horse drawn chariots across the the sky, pursued by wolves....presumably sun and moon.
Let's try again Sol, Mani, Tyr, (Odin, Thor) (Freya, Frigg) Sit, Sol etc
It's counting understood according to a Tree.....a family tree (?)
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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In fact in some traditions Tyr is son of Odin.
So O odin T tyr T thor F freya F frigg S sif........
O one T two T three F four F five S six.
For some reason Odin changes position ??
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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It's something like as the ancient folks don't have a zero.
The "numbers" have to start, so get created, (whoops paradigm error) sorry get recreated (it's cyclical) with a couple of non numbers....a mother father sun/moon type couple, then you have a original hero (Odin), The numbers begin.....however over time he becomes less popular so Tyr gets moved up the ranking.........
so first you had Sol Mani Odin Tyr
Then you get Sol Mani Tyr Odin
NB in some languages eg German Odin disappears altogether instead you get the boring Mittwoch. Typically the Germans have airbrushed a hero out of history altogether......
The British typically kept the counting system, we are resistant to currency/counting changes..... and merely compromised by moving Odin to a later day of the week....
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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So maybe it was originally Lunar.....
Mani (odin, tyr, thor) (freya, frigg, sif)
But when it switched to Solarlunar.....strict 7 day week....
They amalgamated Freya/Frigg and stuck Sol at the start?
They later switched Odin and Tyr (?)
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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Vik=Week
Traditionally an inlet or bay you can turn a ship around in. It serves the same function in early counting/ calendars.
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