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Sunspots (Astrophysics)
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Ishmael


In: Toronto
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So recently, a black spot has been noticed on the surface of Jupiter, from which it has been inferred that the planet suffered a recent collision with an asteroid or comet.

Invoking the principle of same effect, same cause I now declare the mystery of Sun Spots solved.

Clearly, the Sun is surrounded by a nearly limitless count of intramercurial objects of significant size. The only mystery that remains is why the descent of these through the solar surface is periodic in nature, following an apparent 11 year cycle.
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Chad


In: Ramsbottom
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It would appear that the wheels may have fallen off the old sunspot cycle.

It should have reached its minimum last year and the number of sunspots should (according to all the expert predictions) by now be on the increase, but instead they continue to fall... and nobody has seen one for months.

{Pretty soon climatologists will announce that the rate of global warming has started to slow and will claim this is due to governments taking action (on their advice) to lower carbon emissions... but maybe that's for another thread.}
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Mallas



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Hi Ishmael

Are you saying that something/s are colliding with the Sun to produce Sun spots?

Considering the size of Sun Spots, I wonder how Astronomers are missing these somethings which would be larger bodies than Jupiter.

Dark Matter perhaps?
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Mick Harper
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In: London
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It is an ancient Applied Epistemological saw that cycles cease once they are observed. The classic one being the lemmings. The AE explanation is that Man So Hates Unpredictability that s/he is constantly trying to 'cycle' the past so as to predict the future. Unfortunately he always chooses chaotic systems -- because these are the ones that defy all prediction past/ present/ future.

'Unfortunate' because it a) is therefore a completely pointless activity but b) can never be overthrown because chaos means it will always come true eventually. The current slump is a case in point. It is obvious to all AEists that the economy is a chaotic system, but economists claim, on the contrary, it is subject to the Trade Cycle (of boom and bust). The last ten years (or whatever) of boom was just on the point of ruining this theory when (Thank God!) a slump came along and the Trade Cycle was vindicated!

The sunspot cycle will be saved by introducing an epicycle as Ptolemy did with his system. This epicycle (the thousand-year-blip) will be shown to be untrue in a thousand years' time.
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Ishmael


In: Toronto
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Mallas wrote:
Are you saying that something/s are colliding with the Sun to produce Sun spots?


That is exactly what I am saying.

The Sun appears to be surrounded by a dense field of objects numbering in the hundreds of millions at least (probably billions). The objects probably chase the sun's "wobble" through space within lagrange points (Jupiter is trailed and preceded in its orbit by such objects -- I think the Earth may be too).

Every eleven years or so, something disturbs these lagrange points and a number of bodies fall out of stability and collide with the Sun's surface. This produces dark spots and solar eruptions.

It's pretty freaking obvious actually, once you think about it. But then... I am one of the two greatest minds in the universe.

Considering the size of Sun Spots, I wonder how Astronomers are missing these somethings which would be larger bodies than Jupiter.

Why would they be larger than Jupiter?

The size of the black spots need not reflect the size of the object. Look at the spots on Jupiter following the impact of Shoemaker-Levy: Those spots were far larger than the cometary fragments that hit the planet's surface.

The size of the spots probably reflects as much the energy within the gaseous body itself. The Sun has far more energy than does Jupiter and thus it reacts with much greater violence.

Dark Matter perhaps?

Dark matter. Yes. As in regular-old matter we can't see.

It is very easy to lose objects that close-in to the Sun. To this day rumours persist of an intramercurial planet. It was spotted once and never verified.
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Ishmael


In: Toronto
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Next Question.

Where do I go to pick up my Nobel prize?
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DPCrisp


In: Bedfordshire
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So recently, a black spot has been noticed on the surface of Jupiter, from which it has been inferred that the planet suffered a recent collision with an asteroid or comet.

Got pix?

Invoking the principle of same effect, same cause I now declare the mystery of Sun Spots solved.

At this point I thought you were going to raise the SCUM banner and declare that Jupiter is still carrying on some of its star-shining processes.

The only mystery that remains is why the descent of these through the solar surface is periodic in nature, following an apparent 11 year cycle.

And why the pattern sweeps from equator to poles over that period. (Dunno what happens to an individual spot.)
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Ishtar



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DPCrisp wrote:
Got pix?


I also saw it on the news as well. Intresting it's noted an amateur saw it first.

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/health_science/daily/20090722_Amateur_star-gazer_discovers_new_spot_on_Jupiter.html

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Ishmael


In: Toronto
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DPCrisp wrote:
At this point I thought you were going to raise the SCUM banner and declare that Jupiter is still carrying on some of its star-shining processes.

Well that goes without saying.

It must be this process that explains the persistence of the spots on both bodies.

And why the pattern sweeps from equator to poles over that period. (Dunno what happens to an individual spot.)

Didn't know about that last bit until you raised it.

However, having given the matter further thought, I've come to realize that the periodicity of the phenomenon is the strongest evidence available that it is the product of impacts. Orbits and orbit destabilization is the one thing we can predict will rely upon the changing arrangement of the solar system, which is shifting about like -- literal -- clockwork.

It is to the clockwork nature of the solar system's gravitation changes that scientists appeal to destabilize the Oort cloud from which they imagine comets emerge.

Which raises another possibility.

What if there is no Oort cloud?

What if comets do not emerge from some outer region of the Solar System after all. What if, instead, they are sun-charged intra-mercurial objects ejected outward from the Sun? A formerly close-orbiting body that has fallen toward the solar orb only to be sling-shotted outward past the realm of Pluto, before falling back downward again.
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Ishmael


In: Toronto
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Compare the black spot at the pole on Jupiter...



With these black spots...

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Ishmael


In: Toronto
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Ishmael wrote:
What if, instead, they are sun-charged intra-mercurial objects ejected outward from the Sun? A formerly close-orbiting body that has fallen toward the solar orb only to be sling-shotted outward past the realm of Pluto, before falling back downward again.


Hmm... which would mean the Sun is taking shots at Jupiter.

Why?

Why would nature arrange things this way?

Why would matter be put in proximity with the Sun for eons -- most of it being periodically destroyed -- and then some of it be shot across space to slam into a nearby brown dwarf?
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Mallas



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I just do not think Sun spots look like the result of an impact.

The reason I said that the object/s would need to be larger than Jupiter is, if the objects are on a collision course, as they reach the corona they would be burning up.

Just like when a meteor enters the Earths atmosphere, it can start out as big as a car, by the time it hits the Earth's surface, it is the size of a pebble.

Dark matter. Yes. As in regular-old matter we can't see.

It is very easy to lose objects that close-in to the Sun. To this day rumours persist of an intramercurial planet. It was spotted once and never verified.


Is your theory really based on Dark Matter and rumours?
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Ishmael


In: Toronto
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Mallas wrote:
Is your theory really based on Dark Matter and rumours?


It is based on principle: Same effect, same cause.

In AE, we do not allow for the same effect to be produced by multiple causes.
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Ishmael


In: Toronto
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Here are images of the impact marks on Jupiter from the comet Shoemaker-Levy:





Here we have infrared photos of the impact zones on Jupiter from the impact of Shoemaker-Levy.



Look familiar?

And here are infrared images of sunspots (together with solar flares, which reach their peak during periods of intense sunspot activity).



That this simple solution is meeting with so much resistance I take as evidence of my exceptional brilliance.

Goes to show why I am a genius and you are not.

But if I am a genius., I say once again, it is only because I am among the very few who can actually see the obvious.

The rest of you invest your considerable brain power in devising ever-more clever ways of denying the obvious. Good luck with the project!
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Mallas



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They do not look like the same effects though. You know what comes to mind when looking at those pics. Comparing someone with pimples and someone with chicken pox. They look similar at a distance, but both completely different causes.

They possibly look similar, but I am still struggling to find a high resolution (or any decent resolution for that matter) picture of an object colliding with Jupiter or the Sun.




So the 2 pictures are showing the same effects and using the principle: Same effect, same cause. We can safely say that lightning bolts are the cause of massive canyons on planets.
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