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Going Walkabout (British History)
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Mick Harper
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I don't see any specific connection with Avebury and the Dragon Line apart from the obvious importance of the place which could be simply due to its being the start of a main (the main) thoroughfare snaking for a hundred miles or so across the chalk uplands

The Dragon Line has a characteristic that is hidden to all (except M J Harper) because it is a characteristic that is common to all long roads but not to all long straight lines. Look along the Dragon Line from St Michael's Mount to Avebury and what do you see? It is hidden in plain sight.

Standing stones may have been the equivalent of road-signs pointing to Avebury, which is where the great west-east road begins.

This is true and it is frequently reported that megaliths can be found in corners of fields and even embedded in walls, and these may indeed be route markers. However the stones at Avebury are only of use when you have found Avebury so something else is required if you have missed it.
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Hatty
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Look along the Dragon Line from St Michael's Mount to Avebury and what do you see? It is hidden in plain sight.

Lots of hills, though it's hard to tell by looking at a not very good map how far you could see. Are you saying that the shapes of the hills themselves are the 'road signs'? It is in fact very difficult to tell one hill from another in practice; a summit would have to have a particular feature in order to tell it apart from the rest.
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Mick Harper
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Nope, you can see the salient characteristic from the map you have so thoughtfully provided. You won't see it though because you have to be M J Harper to see it. And when M J Harper tells you, you'll say, "Oh yes, I knew that all the time."
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Hatty
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You keep the sea always on your left (can you see the sea all the way -- not helped by English drizzle?)? If Avebury was moved northwards the line would cross the Bristol Channel.
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Mick Harper
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Oh well, I suppose you're close enough. Here is the full explanation for the siting of Avebury.

The line from St Michael's Mount to Avebury does not cross the sea at any point. We don't notice this because no road crosses the sea -- but that's because we can divert a road around any inconvenient arm of the sea. But you can't do that with a straight line, you have to choose your straight line with great care beforehand.

And this is the entire point about the St Michael's Line, from St Michael's Mount to the Norfolk coast -- it is the longest east-west landline it is possible to draw anywhere in the British Isles. Why is this so important? Because if you are laying out a system which involves walking from one point to another in a straight line, you clearly can't go across the sea.

Now, if you move Avebury even a little way to the north, and draw the Dragon Line from St Michael's Mount to this new Avebury, the line will now 'fall into' the Bristol Channel. But if you move Avebury a little to the south, and you draw a straight line from large parts of South Wales to this new Avebury, these will also now be cut off by the Bristol Channel. Ditto both chunks of the West Country and or Wales if you move Avebury even a little way to the west.

You can, however, move Avebury eastwards and preserve these always-across-the-land properties but this will mean all travellers from the west will have to go further than is necessary in order to reach 'the in-gathering point' at Avebury.

In other words, Avebury is the unique point in the whole of southern Britain so that anybody anywhere in Western Britain can reach it by line-of-sight without having to cross a body of water and by the quickest route.

This is a million-to-one coincidence if Avebury is sited where it is for any other reason. However I am prepared to bet that it will be discovered that
1. little bits of infilling have already been done by the Megalithic Corporation in eg the Somerset Levels to make sure the sea doesn't get in the way even locally
2. Local mini-Aveburys will be found in bits of Cornwall or South Wales where, despite everything, the sea does interfere with line of sight towards Avebury
3. There is some sophisticated switching arrangements at the head of the Bristol Channel where the two quadrants (the West Country and Wales) join up. [Actually I am just adding this last bit in because we know there are!]

You read it here first. Unless you read it first when we did all this before. Though it will be interesting to hear if anybody actually remembers this from last time. These really important discoveries often get thrown away when first heard on the grounds that they are probably not true. Or too obvious. Or too something or other. It's part of the human condition (remember how your brain is wired) unless you yourself pick it up and run with it. That's the only way to get it wired into your own brain.
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Hatty
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And this is the entire point about the St Michael's Line, from St Michael's Mount to the Norfolk coast -- it is the longest east-west landline it is possible to draw anywhere in the British Isles. Why is this so important? Because if you are laying out a system which involves walking from one point to another in a straight line, you clearly can't go across the sea.

I was thinking about the sea as a (distant) marker, not about the route not crossing it. A straight line is the shortest route, as the rook flies, but isn't necessarily the fastest. It does explain why Avebury is in that particular location I agree, a most practical choice of site (on paper) if straightness is what you're after.

little bits of infilling have already been done by the Megalithic Corporation in eg the Somerset Levels to make sure the sea doesn't get in the way even locally

Any route that passes dangerously close to the shore would require roadworks.

Local mini-Aveburys will be found in bits of Cornwall or South Wales where, despite everything, the sea does interfere with line of sight towards Avebury

I don't understand what 'line of sight' refers to. How would a stranger know where Avebury was situated unless they had a map or a guide?

You read it here first.

Yes. The Ridgeway is generally considered to be the longest land route from Lyme to Norfolk. (It has to traverse the Thames at Goring but that doesn't count as it's not the sea, anyway the St Michael Line would have to cross the Thames too).

These really important discoveries often get thrown away when first heard on the grounds that they are probably not true. Or too obvious.

I wouldn't 'throw away' such a truly thought-provoking idea. Whether the St Michael Line actually crosses the land all the way to Hopton on Sea is questionable...why would anyone want to end up there? The main reason for a straight line is presumably to make it easy to stay on course but you've got to have a reason for undertaking the journey, usually for commercial or military purposes. I've got a feeling I'm missing something...
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Hatty
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I always thought that the start of the Autumn Term was designed to allow the harvest to be brought in, which may still be the case but apparently St Michael's day is 29th September and this was the day of accounts and reckoning. The beginning of the universities' scholastic year was heralded by Michaelmas.
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Mick Harper
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Yes, as you know, the universities were founded by Celtic monks who were heirs to the Megalithic Tradition.

I don't understand what 'line of sight' refers to.

Line of sight simply means that you can see the last marker, you are standing at or close to the middle marker and you can see the next marker. You know what the last marker is because you've just come from there; you know the middle marker because you're standing next to it, and you can identify the next marker because it is the 'feature' on the landscape that is indicated by lining up the last one and the present one. The whole system is predicated on this simple procedure.

So long as you are on land you can always go from marker to marker to marker (irrespective of the fact that in practice you might not actually want to climb up a tor). But you can't do this if the sea is in the way. It is true that you could arrange a ferry but the central principle of the Megalithic System is to operate with low maintenance and (if necessary) without the co-operation of the locals.

However now I am forced to think about this, I am prepared to go out on a slight limb and predict that the Megalithics must have done something about large rivers. Large-scale engineering was certainly their forte so rivers would be meat-and-drink. The Thames, as we all know, is highly suspicious. Doncha think it weird that the longest east-west line in the whole of Britain doesn't have any major rivers to cross! In the case of the one unquestionable biggy, the Severn estuary, a great deal of Megalithic effort seems to have gone into circumventing it.

Investigations on rivers/crossings please!
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Mick Harper
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How would a stranger know where Avebury was situated unless they had a map or a guide?

That's the whole point! In an illiterate society you can have no maps, no guides. You need an entirely different way to navigate. In the Megalithic System, wherever you are in western Britain, Ley-Lines (for that is what a straight-line-of-sight-system actually amounts to) will deliver you painlessly and unavoidably to Avebury. You don't need to know where Avebury is, you don't even have to know what Avebury is, The System will take you there simply because you are following the line-of-sight landscape features the Megalithics have provided for you.

Once you are at Avebury, once everybody is at Avebury (as it were, because all individuals start from a unique point but all end at the same point) then a different system takes over.
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Mick Harper
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Whether the St Michael Line actually crosses the land all the way to Hopton on Sea is questionable...why would anyone want to end up there?

Precisely! Hopton-on-Sea has no significance whatsoever. Nobody wants to go there. It is only of Megalithic significance because, as it happens, the longest east-west landline in Britain finishes there. But lots and lots and lots of people want to go to the Norfolk flint mines (we know this because Norfolk flints are found all over Britain), and lots and lots and lots of people want to go to the East Anglian ports (to go to Scandinavia). You just pop off the line wherever convenient.

And remember unlike pre-Avebury, you are now in a large group since lots and lots and lots of people delivered to Avebury by Ley-Lines also want to go to the flint-mines or the Anglian ports. So I shouldn't worry about not popping off at the right place.
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Grant



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Mick wrote
the megalithic system is not a route marker it is a navigation system

I feel like whassisname when after hearing Darwin's theory said "how stupid of me. Why didn't I think of that?" Mick, where do you get these insights from? Are you a bloody time-traveller or something?

You've explained something which has always bugged me about Stonehenge: why is it so shit? Why did they drag these stones so many miles with so many people but hardly bother to dress them. Where are the carvings on them? And why, despite the desperate efforts to make them burial grounds, are so few interesting things ever dug up around them. All these questions are answered if they were "just" navigational aids.
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Hatty
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The most obvious characteristic of the Ridgeway and indeed other ridgeways is they follow ridges whereas footpaths tend to be lower down, in other words it's the 'high road'. St Michael monuments are on mounts or high places; there is a link between height and guiding light as with beacons. Another distinctive Ridgeway characteristic is the whiteness of the chalk soil which can be clearly seen, not perhaps as evident as 'cats' eyes' markings but furrows on a track are the next best thing. {We discussed somewhere the beacon-like aspect of the white cliffs.}

Does anyone know the origin of the expression 'as different as chalk and cheese'? There are some fairly bizarre traditions in southern England, such as rolling a round cheese down a Cotswold hill which takes place at the end of May; is this time of year of lunar significance (and is there a connection with the popular saying that the moon is made of cheese?)?
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Mick Harper
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Stonehenge: why is it so shit?

'ang about, I haven't said anything about Stonehenge. But thanks for the praise, I do need it from time to time.

Why did they drag these stones so many miles with so many people but hardly bother to dress them.

On this, I am a strict (John) Michellian. The lintel stones, the ones nobody can reach and which appear to be impervious to weathering, are the Megalithic standard measure. They are the Ancients' equivalent of our foot-long brass poles in the Tower of London that define the Imperial measure or the French irridium rods in Paris that keep the metric system consistent..

All these questions are answered if they were "just" navigational aids.

Yes, but there are stone circles everywhere (again, Stonehenge is just the exemplar). So your next question is this:
Assume you have just landed in, let's say, Carmarthen and you want to get to Norfolk. You don't know you are in Carmarthen (you haven't got any charts, remember) and you certainly don't know where Norfolk is. But you do know one thing! And you are standing in a stone circle near where you landed. So how are you going to use that one thing plus the stone circle to get all the way to Norfolk?
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Mick Harper
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Actually, having had a bit of a think about this, I realise you don't even need to know this one thing. The stone circle plus something else will tell you all you need to know.
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Hatty
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Chalk appears to be, somewhat counterintuitively, wetter on top of a hill rather than further down, being porous unlike the clay lying further down. It's not uncommon to find alternative high and low routes; the Icknield Way divides into the Upper and Lower Icknield Way in the Chilterns, the lower way is thought to be later (Roman) and follows the spring line while the older drier track keeps to the ridge.

Doncha think it weird that the longest east-west line in the whole of Britain doesn't have any major rivers to cross!

It is particularly weird in such a dry region of porous chalk soil and low rainfall where bournes have a habit of drying up in the summer months (hence the frequency of 'Winterbournes'), an area you would think is in dire need of plentiful water stops for long distance travellers. Dew ponds can be easily dug out of the soft chalk and lined with clay to create drinking places for livestock. Travellers would no doubt encounter numerous water/beer stops strategically placed along the way.

The downs would be a suitable location for agriculture, even vineyards, but this is clearly an area where animals especially sheep graze, keeping the grass short all year round. Near Swyncombe, part of the Abbey of Bec's holding, there are the hamlets of Britwell Salome and Brightwell and, even nearer, Ewelme [ It is said by some that the name itself - Ewelme - is derived from the Latin Aqua Alma, the 'sweet water' and by others the name is said to be Anglo-Saxon in origin - from Aewhylme - the 'water whelming' up from the ground and so giving rise to those 'sweet waters', which spring up on Ewelme Common.].

The two main routes, the Ridgeway and the Icknield Way, cross the Thames at Goring near Streatley. The Goring Gap is described as "an interesting geological feature" cutting through the hills at a point where the Thames runs in a north to south direction.

A pattern seems to be emerging; Goring and Streatley are on opposite sides of the river at this juncture. The two villages had little contact with each other though they are now conjoined as Goring-Streatley; Goring may be a 'George' name though its etymology is linked to 'gar' (spear), Streatley church is thought be have been dedicated to St. Mary. If you remember, Ogbourne St George and Ogbourne St Andrew are both on the Og bourne at a place where the Ridgeway descends abruptly into the valley. Further along on the river Swere just north of Oxford is Barford St Michael on the south bank and Barford St John (Little Barford or North Barford) on the opposite side of the river. Barton St Michael was known as Greater Barton (as Ogbourne St George was 'Greater Ogbourne') though there's precious little greatness now, one pub (the George) and a farm shop. It was called Bereford in the Domesday Book (barford is said to mean barley ford) and is described as being traversed by "ancient roads".
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