Crying Wolf (Life Sciences)

[Ishmael]

[Mick Harper]

Beavering away (yes, the beaver is one) on my ex-domesticates chapter, I have now come up with not four, not five but eight 'things-to-look-for' (and I'd like to get it up to the usual ten for neatness's sake so make suggestions). Here's the list (not all apply to all ex-domesticates). I'll write up a little bit about each one every day (or when any subsequent discussion is over).

1. Whiteness
2. Useful characteristic for man
3. Odd behaviour out of keeping with closely related animals
4. Appealing face or other 'cute' characteristic
5. Smallness
6. Curious extinctions
7. Curious habitat circumstance
8. "Northern" dimension

[Ishmael]

I have suggested that hierarchical organization with a replaceable pack leader is another characteristic of feral domesticates.

[Mick Harper]

I have rejected this on three grounds:
1. I didn't think of it
2. It is orthodoxy (always applied to dogs)
3. It doesn't seem to apply to enough ex-domesticates to be a characteristic, even by the 'some, but not all' standard I have provisionally adopted. Here are ones that it doesn't apply to off the top of my head, you let me have a list of ones that do off the top of yours:
owls
hawks
corvidae
but not all birds, I think geese etc would fit your parameters
beaver
otter
ferret
all cat species (or do 'prides' count?)

[Mick Harper]

I was thinkiing about bison. It is fair enough that small herds of horses, sheep (or indeed bison) wouled have a "hierarchical organization" with a "replaceable pack leader" (since it is an observed fact) but how does a million strong throng of bison sort out its leadership structure? I ask any orthodox who might be listening since they regard million-strong bison herds as perfectly natural.

Oh and add pigs to the non-hierarchies. Or do boar operate in packs?

[Hatty]

Ishmael's pack leader theory certainly applies to rooks. As well as

wolves
weasels
elephants
lions
horses
dolphins (and porpoises?)
possibly seals (birthing)
deer including reindeer

[Mick Harper]

Ah, yes, the ninth characteristic: aberrant genetics. Here's a case in point (from Wiki):

[Hatty]

Delayed implantation is not perhaps aberrant but it's relatively uncommon.

Marking territory by smell is acceptably normal but it could be considered aberrant for otherwise secretive animals, e.g. pine martens, to display their whereabouts so openly. In folklore the basilisk could only be slain by the sound of a cock or the smell of a weasel [cocks are even noisier than geese and crows which begs another question].

[Hatty]

Maybe there's an element of potty training in the domestication/non-domestication question. Some animals are famous for personal hygiene, e.g. rabbits, cats. It might be worth looking at birds that a) have filthy nests and b) eject droppings.

[Chad]

[Ishmael]

The significance of this line of thinking is that it suggests the retention of juvenile characteristics is the key to domestication. I will suggest that "juvenile" characteristics in some cases includes pre-birth development.

[Mick Harper]

Let me check on boar before I kiss them goodbye. In tales of pig-sticking there is always one boar, never talk of a pack. Of course this may be because the boar are in artificial hunting reserves and are (therefore) acting artificially.

But are there any true wild boars left in the wild for us to judge their original natural behaviour? We have not touched on what happens to domesticates which have gone feral -- for all we know, they might create pack hierarchies to replace the Lost Leader (ie man).

[berniegreen]

[Mick Harper]

[Chad]